Fix, my 292 dizzy in the 46 is VERY close to the firewall. The aftermarket performance units that are taller wouldnt fit unless the firewall is cut for relief. Do you have a front or rear sump pan? That is a tough nut to have that much reduction in oil capacity. The frames between 41 and 46 are different, but there is pleny of room for me to get under the truck and pull the pan off (rear sump).
I have a problem too with coolant temperature, but the opposite. It stays too cold. At 80 or 85 ambient and cruising 50-65 mph, it is 155. Temp gauge is totally accurate (I checked and double checked). No mechanical fan, just electric. Radiator is stock 46 four row, new core. Hood off. High quality 180 thermostat.
Exhaust has been difficult too on the driver side. Finally ran it out through the inner fender. I'm going to give that issue one more try this fall or winter.
Why only 60 mph, rearend? The 272 should give you a better than that.
What kind of motor mounts do you have, curious? Hurst front adaptor maybe?

 

Yup it's a hurst front adapter.
I have considered tearing through the whole mess to make it work better. new trans, change the crossmember, make some headers, and get a new oilpan, but after doing the math I think it would be cheaper and easier to work on in the future if I just changed it all out to something a little newer. It's almost a shame though the y-block looks absoultely huge in this truck, and nobody ever guesses what it actually is.
I think my speed problem is in the trans. It's a three speed that reportedly came with the motor, but I'm guessing it was out of a truck or something that just wasn't geared for this type of setup. The rearend is a Dana 44, and I don't think the problem lies there.
It's hard to tell where the sump for the oil pan was originaly since mine is butchered up so badly. Is there one that will work around the crossmember that I could get? That would be an easy weekend project for me, and I would be more than willing to change it out just to see if it helps.
Since the addition of the electric fan I haven't just let the truck run to see how hot it gets. I last drove it about ten miles to the town next to mine. The drive is all highway, and in that time the temp gauge climbed steadily up to about 190. I assume it would keep going but haven't had the guts to find out. (I hate walking back home).
My exhaust also goes out the inner fender. Do your manifolds fit. They look so silly upside down that I would really like to find some other way to make the exhaust work.
I don't have a good digital camera, but If you want I could post some pics of the shotty work that this truck has lived through.
When I finish the 46 I think this truck is next.
To clear my distributor I had to cut an access panel in the firewall.After installation I dished out a scrap peice of metal to match and fitted it as an access panel. It clears the distributor by about 1/4 inch all around, and doesn't leave much room to work, but I manage to get by.

 

Fix, hope you dont mind all my expressed interest, but it is rare to find one of our old motors in these older trucks. Maybe someone has a picture in their gallery of a frame for a 40-41 half ton I could see? Without that, my best guess is that a rear sump pan should do you fine.

You are probably right about the easier and cheaper, but if you can get it right, not kooler.

The speed problem cant be in the tranny. Its final gear ratio is 1:1. My tranny is an old 46 3 speed. The truck would go 110 or better if the cab didnt fly off first. Rear end is an 8 inch 3.00.

Upside down manifolds just cant work very well. The exhaust has to make some very unnatural turns, and would be very restrictive. Not sure but I would think the old nasty crossover single exhaust would exit gas better than having duals upside down.

I have a rams horn manifold on the passenger side. No problems at all. Driverside is a normally mounted front exiting crossover style manifold, with the exhaust pipe taking a left turn through the inner fender. I'm going to see if a RamsHorn can be fit up to the driver side. The problem isnt the manifold, but the exhaust pipe. The attempt has been made before, but not since adding a remote oil filter.

If you have a 195 degree thermostat installed, it would just be opening at 190.

My gallery shows the RamsHorn manifold on the right side. Dont think there is a good picture though of the left side.

Gary, hope you and others can tolerate some motor talk here on the forum.

 

I looked at the pan again, and a rear sump should have fit. I don't know why it got so butchered up. My best guess is that the motor is mounted to low. raising it another inch or two would have eliminated a bunch of problems.
As for the manifolds they also have the motor too low problem which is why they wont fit in the normal position. the problem with raising the engine is that it doesn't really clear the firewall now.

I also have a 46 that I am working on, and I would bet that the motor fits much better. although the frames aren't any wider, alot of space is gained with the wider hood and fenders. yours certainly fits better than mine.

Being a youngun I'm not that familiar with these motors. This leaves me at an extreme disadvantage when looking for parts. For instance I was not aware that rams horns were available. I think I might be able to make them clear the frame. I have some ugly cast ones that dump out in the rear (when upside down they dump in the front allowing them to clear the frame). What years and models might I look at for rams horn style manifolds.

I'm very disturbed by your coment about the trans. I was hoping that the transmision was the problem. Changing the gears in the rearend couldn't gain me more than 10 to 15 MPH could it? Right now at 60 MPH the engine is running at pretty high RPM's. It isn't topped out but it clearly doesn't have much left either.

I don't have a thermostat installed at all. I've heard that if the head gaskets were installed incorrectly they could cause the kind of overheating that I am experiencing, but until I get it to go faster I can't justify putting a lot of time or money in the engine.

I started a gallery for it, but I don't have any pics of the engine compartment. Maybe tommorrow I will have time to pull it out of the garage and snap some pics of the engine. I could be that just looking at it someone else will see why this doesn't fit and give me some advice on how to fix it.

Thanks for the ideas and help you've already given me. If I only had two of me, and loads of money, I could work on both trucks at the same time.

 

Fix, it sounds like you have a rearend with very low gears, causing your motor to run high rpms at relatively low speeds. You should find out what that gearing is. There usually is an ID tag on the rear with the ratio.

I used to have a 54 F-350. It had a 223 I-6 with a rear of something close to 5.57. Absolute top MPH was 46, with the motor cranking close to 4G's. I could have put in an FE 390, and it still would have been at 4000 rpm going 46 mph.

The ram horn manifolds came I think in 1961, for 292s in big trucks, F-500 or 600 and larger. So 1961-64, since 64 was the last year for Y motors. They are usually very expensive. e-bay often has them, and the price is normally $350 to $400. Generally whatever fits a 292 fits a 272, as well as a 312.

You should go over to the Y-block forum here on FTE for any motor questions. There are some guys there that can be a big help.

Nice looking 41!

 

Mike, no worries about the motor talk, this is all good info for the '47 and ealrier trucks. It's interesting hearing this talk. Years ago I had picked up a '62 292 for one of my '46s, and had it mounted in a spare frame, but just decided not to use it and sold it. It was a good fit, cleared everything in the frame well, but decided to go with a full dress flathead.

 

There's a detailed diagram of his frame here: http://www.wescottsauto.com/pdf2/FR-6.pdf

I assume that we're talking a '40-41 frame as the first message of the thread is gone.

Mike

 

Thanks for the chart Mike. I'll go out in the next couple of days and get some measurements on the rear sump pan so Fix can figure out if it will work for sure. If it will Fix, they are easy to find. I have two extras, and they are often on e-bay.

 

I checked the gear ratio on this rearend, and if the tag is right its 3.91. What gear ratio should I be looking for? I don't need it to go real fast, but it would be nice if I could drive it on a highway without having it reved all the way up.

I will also be adding some pics to my gallery so you can see what the motor looks like in the 41. should have them up shortly.

I should correct some info. The exaust manifolds are swaped left for right instead of upside down. In the normal position they wont clear the wishbone shaped crossmembers just in front of the cab. you can see these crossmembers in the diagram that 45 Ford attached (thanks).

I'm thinking about just moving the motor forward a bit. I have about three inches between the fan and the radiator, and asside from the oil pan, the extra space should make everything else fit nicer.

 

Here is a calculator you can use to plug in numbers and find out rpms:http://www.richmondgear.com/101032.html
Using a rear tire diameter of 27 inches, you are running close to 3000 rpms at 60 mph. That would sound like it is really turning, but the 272 if in good shape, in stock form and having enough carb, easily runs 5000. However, I wouldnt want to have to work the motor to 3000 to get 60 either. I think you would want a final ratio in the range of 3.00 to 3.55. Edge toward the higher number if you want to hot rod around, and the lower number if you just cruise around and like a slightly better mpg. With my 3.00 and 25.5 inch rear tires, I run about 2100 rpm at 60. It isnt much good at spinning tires off the line.
You can also use different rear tire sizes to alter mpg vs. rpm, to an extent.
Moving the motor forward SOUNDS like a good idea. Do a lot of measuring and planning. You will have to have the drive shaft lengthened by a shop specializing in that. They are in most every community. It is easy and cost runs about $150. Make sure they balance the drive shaft after lengthening. Look to see if there is more than one shop in your area and get multiple quotes.

 

The drive shaft is no problem. I got a friend that owns a machine shop. He's done a drive shaft for me in the past.


I need to go to the yard to look at some bumpers. I will look for some other gear options while I'm there. I'm hoping to find some rear fenders that I can fix for my 46 anyway. I might pick up a carb as well, mine doesn't work all that great.

Thanks for all the help.
I'm looking forward to getting this truck running a little faster and a little cooler so that I can actually drive it somewhere.

well I'm off to the junk yard this weekend (can I pick ya up anythin?)

 

Here are some depth measurements on the rear sump pan, and a picture of one. The measurements are fairly close but not exact.
They were taken at intervals measured from the front edge of the pan gasket flange, as follows: 4, 8, 12, 14.5, 18.5, and 21 inches.
Respective depth was 3.5, 3 7/8, 4.25, 5, 4 7/8, and 5 5/8 inches.
Any 272, 292, or 312 pan with rear sump will be the same approx. depth. Make sure to get the oil pickup assembly with the pan, because yours has most likely been altered. http://www.fordcustoms.com/photopost...m/P7050007.JPG

 

Thanks for the pics and measurements. The pan I have looks to have started out as one of those. The front three inches has been cut away and welded flat. it looks like the original pan would hit my crossmember. I only have about 1 inch from the bottom of my engine to the frame in the front of the pan. I have no idea why it doesn't clear the frame. my guess is that the Hurst adapter is from the wrong application. The motor looks too far back and too low to me. I will probably have to move it around in the future, and when I do I will certainly be getting a new oil pan.