ranger troubles + lack of knowledge = panic
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ranger troubles + lack of knowledge = panic
I have a ranger that has recently given me cause for some concern and am hoping to get a bit more info on what I'm looking at.
Specs off the top of my head:
99 Ranger
XLT sport extended cab
3.0L "vulcan" V6 Flex Fuel engine
4x2 rear wheel drive
I bought this truck used after putting it though all the recommended paces. Diagnosis from my mechanic came back good and the test drive was amazingly smooth and fun, especially after driving a money pit of a beretta for the previous two years before it finally exploded for good. At the time of purchase (approximatly a year ago) the truck had 42K on the odometer, and it currently has 52 and change. The miles put on it since purchase have been a fairly even split of highway and city miles. Generally to work and back, and one 1,200 mile round trip, of which only about 40 miles were city. Never do any towing at that, I think the heaviest load ever carried was a few boxes of clothes and some camping gear in the bed that probably totaled 250 pounds.
A couple weeks after purchase a friend helped me change the oil, serpentine belt, oil filter, air filter, and coolant. After that it got taken to my mechanic again to get the transmission fluid changed as well as the filter. The oil that was removed looked OK, and the report on the transmission fluid was that it checked out fine. The details of the replacement oil slip my mind, save that it was a recommended blend synthetic, though I don't know where the recommendation came from as the friend looked up the information. The replacement ATF was the recommended Mercon V.
Problems it has displayed of late:
The check engine lamp has come on as of yesterday afternoon while I was driving home. I'm aware that I'm only going to know what it's upset about if I take it somewhere and have the codes from the computer read. After reading though the first ten or so pages of this forum I have seen it mentioned that autozone will perform this service either for a small fee or no charge in the hopes you will buy the replacement parts there. I haven't called them yet to see if they do or not at the location nearest me, however, is it standard for them to have this policy and if so how much do they usually charge?
Moving right along, the truck has been running rough recently, I noticed this about a week ago and attributed it to the amazingly hot and humid weather we were having. Unfortunatly it has persisted and the weather has gotten much milder in the past few days. It mainly does this at lower speeds and is most noticeable at lower (~1.5K) RPM's while it's still warming up. I should probably note that it doesn't do anything truly astounding like surge or heave, it mainly feels like it's doing fine and then for a split second it's normal operating sounds seem to slow down and I feel a slight vibration before it returns to normal.
Another problem it has been displaying is it pings. Not being the most mechanically inclined person ever I only recently figured out that this symptom was described as such, before then I always thought of it as a marble in a paint can and referred to it as a rattling. It has actually done this since about two months after I bought it, but I never thought much of it. This is mainly displayed when going up hills and also at lower RPM's (~2K), such as when cruising and then needing to accelerate to maintain speed while going up a hill. Recently however, it has started pinging very slightly on inclines not as steep as those it normally took to generate the pinging. I have been told hotter weather conditions can cause this or make it worse, some clarification on this point would be appreciated. After some reading I have figured out that a higher octane fuel might help, and that would seem to be a good starting point as the owner's manual recommends 87 and as I recall most of the fuel grades in my area start at about 83. What I would like to know on this count is what other things could cause this, and what I can possibly do to minimize or remedy it entirely.
The final question would of course be are any of the above listed problems, either singly or together, indicative of a huge problem that is going to take my ranger out of service followed by my wallet crying a river of tears to get it back into service?
Appologies on the length of the post, just don't want a repeat of my last car.
Specs off the top of my head:
99 Ranger
XLT sport extended cab
3.0L "vulcan" V6 Flex Fuel engine
4x2 rear wheel drive
I bought this truck used after putting it though all the recommended paces. Diagnosis from my mechanic came back good and the test drive was amazingly smooth and fun, especially after driving a money pit of a beretta for the previous two years before it finally exploded for good. At the time of purchase (approximatly a year ago) the truck had 42K on the odometer, and it currently has 52 and change. The miles put on it since purchase have been a fairly even split of highway and city miles. Generally to work and back, and one 1,200 mile round trip, of which only about 40 miles were city. Never do any towing at that, I think the heaviest load ever carried was a few boxes of clothes and some camping gear in the bed that probably totaled 250 pounds.
A couple weeks after purchase a friend helped me change the oil, serpentine belt, oil filter, air filter, and coolant. After that it got taken to my mechanic again to get the transmission fluid changed as well as the filter. The oil that was removed looked OK, and the report on the transmission fluid was that it checked out fine. The details of the replacement oil slip my mind, save that it was a recommended blend synthetic, though I don't know where the recommendation came from as the friend looked up the information. The replacement ATF was the recommended Mercon V.
Problems it has displayed of late:
The check engine lamp has come on as of yesterday afternoon while I was driving home. I'm aware that I'm only going to know what it's upset about if I take it somewhere and have the codes from the computer read. After reading though the first ten or so pages of this forum I have seen it mentioned that autozone will perform this service either for a small fee or no charge in the hopes you will buy the replacement parts there. I haven't called them yet to see if they do or not at the location nearest me, however, is it standard for them to have this policy and if so how much do they usually charge?
Moving right along, the truck has been running rough recently, I noticed this about a week ago and attributed it to the amazingly hot and humid weather we were having. Unfortunatly it has persisted and the weather has gotten much milder in the past few days. It mainly does this at lower speeds and is most noticeable at lower (~1.5K) RPM's while it's still warming up. I should probably note that it doesn't do anything truly astounding like surge or heave, it mainly feels like it's doing fine and then for a split second it's normal operating sounds seem to slow down and I feel a slight vibration before it returns to normal.
Another problem it has been displaying is it pings. Not being the most mechanically inclined person ever I only recently figured out that this symptom was described as such, before then I always thought of it as a marble in a paint can and referred to it as a rattling. It has actually done this since about two months after I bought it, but I never thought much of it. This is mainly displayed when going up hills and also at lower RPM's (~2K), such as when cruising and then needing to accelerate to maintain speed while going up a hill. Recently however, it has started pinging very slightly on inclines not as steep as those it normally took to generate the pinging. I have been told hotter weather conditions can cause this or make it worse, some clarification on this point would be appreciated. After some reading I have figured out that a higher octane fuel might help, and that would seem to be a good starting point as the owner's manual recommends 87 and as I recall most of the fuel grades in my area start at about 83. What I would like to know on this count is what other things could cause this, and what I can possibly do to minimize or remedy it entirely.
The final question would of course be are any of the above listed problems, either singly or together, indicative of a huge problem that is going to take my ranger out of service followed by my wallet crying a river of tears to get it back into service?
Appologies on the length of the post, just don't want a repeat of my last car.
Junior User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 67
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From: A Double-wide
Don't worry! Your trucks not getting ready to blow up on you! (I don't think)
. Pulling the codes is the very first thing you should do.
Go to Autozone and get the codes read. They will do it for free. Write them down and repost them here. The folks in these forums are very knowlegeable and can definately help you. You need to know what those codes are!
. Pulling the codes is the very first thing you should do.Go to Autozone and get the codes read. They will do it for free. Write them down and repost them here. The folks in these forums are very knowlegeable and can definately help you. You need to know what those codes are!
Last edited by GWIGG; Jul 7, 2005 at 06:02 AM.
Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 31
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From: Mercer, PA
Only difference between our trucks is you have an automatic. Get the codes first...my first guess is it will say EGR excessive air flow..in which case I have just either sprayed some carbeurator cleaner in the valve, or get a bottle of additive for your gas on the next fill up (Lucas or Outlaw has worked best in mine). After that the light just goes out. Best of Luck
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,851
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From: SW Va
Welcome to FTE WarHound.
As GWIGG has suggested, have the computer scanned for trouble codes, as the codes can improve our guess as to what the computer is unhappy with, then post ALL the codes found.
In my area of Va. Advance auto & AutoZone will scan the computer at no cost. I believe in Calif. they are required by law to charge something for this service. In one case I read, you pull them yourself with their scanner, for a refundable deposit, so call around & ask what the policy is in your area.
From your description of the "pinging" being there from the start, but geting worse over time, I might suspect things like a slow build up of carbon deposits, dirty MAF sensor, from a leak past the replaced air filter,(I've recently read in another thread on this Forum that Pureolator air filters have been giving some fit problems), so if your replacement filter was that brand, you might have by~passed enough dirt to contaminate the MAF, or maybe it's as you suggested, a combination of fuel octane, wather & altitude, as I suspect your location is in the mountains if your regular fuel is only 83 octane, or maybe the wrong heat range spark plugs, if they aren't the OEM ones.
Anyway it doesn't sound like a death rattle from your description & as dwildman has suggested, maybe some TLC will fix her up.
I'd try different brands of gas too, in my area I've found that Chevron & Texaco, in that order, perform the best for me in my 99 4.0L.
If in the end, engine carbon deposits are suspected, then maybe something like a dose of Chevron "Techron" or "SeaFoam" in a tank of gas, along with a good high speed interstate 20 mile blow er out, would help.
Anyway, have the computer codes pulled & post ALL you find.
As GWIGG has suggested, have the computer scanned for trouble codes, as the codes can improve our guess as to what the computer is unhappy with, then post ALL the codes found.
In my area of Va. Advance auto & AutoZone will scan the computer at no cost. I believe in Calif. they are required by law to charge something for this service. In one case I read, you pull them yourself with their scanner, for a refundable deposit, so call around & ask what the policy is in your area.
From your description of the "pinging" being there from the start, but geting worse over time, I might suspect things like a slow build up of carbon deposits, dirty MAF sensor, from a leak past the replaced air filter,(I've recently read in another thread on this Forum that Pureolator air filters have been giving some fit problems), so if your replacement filter was that brand, you might have by~passed enough dirt to contaminate the MAF, or maybe it's as you suggested, a combination of fuel octane, wather & altitude, as I suspect your location is in the mountains if your regular fuel is only 83 octane, or maybe the wrong heat range spark plugs, if they aren't the OEM ones.
Anyway it doesn't sound like a death rattle from your description & as dwildman has suggested, maybe some TLC will fix her up.
I'd try different brands of gas too, in my area I've found that Chevron & Texaco, in that order, perform the best for me in my 99 4.0L.
If in the end, engine carbon deposits are suspected, then maybe something like a dose of Chevron "Techron" or "SeaFoam" in a tank of gas, along with a good high speed interstate 20 mile blow er out, would help.
Anyway, have the computer codes pulled & post ALL you find.
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Thanks much for the replies so far, greatly appreciated to be sure. I have so far today taken a stroll over to autozone after work to get the codes. Unfortunatly they couldn't get the reader to pull anything, the display came up blank. This was with three separate readers as well.
After poking around for a bit the attendant helping me said it was most likely either a problem with the port or something up with the fuse. I looked up under the console and couldn't see anything, so no obvious help there. The fuse box was a different story. I poked around a bit in the owner's manual to find the fuse box diagrams, and after looking at it found that #5 is for the Data Link Connector and is a 10 amp fuse. It also just so happens that there is no fuse in the #5 slot.
On top of this there were four fuses attached to the back of the panel I had to pull of to get to the fuse board. Given that the amperages for these four were graduated lowest to highest in accordance with the ratings I saw in the book I'm assuming these are replacements, but the 10 amp fuse looked like it had been inserted at some point due to some scoring on the prongs. Not wanting to make any assumptions I didn't put it in just yet, also I noted some of the fuses were inserted in different ways and didn't want to just run off and jam things in here and there without knowing what I was doing.
So.. the plan thus far is to try to dig up more detailed information on the fuse box and hopefully hit autozone up again later this evening. So far the truck seems to be taking continued use in stride though. No noticeable variations on top of what I've already described. Just waiting for the gas tank to run a bit lower before I put one of the thus far mentioned cleaners in with a tank of higher octane fuel.
After poking around for a bit the attendant helping me said it was most likely either a problem with the port or something up with the fuse. I looked up under the console and couldn't see anything, so no obvious help there. The fuse box was a different story. I poked around a bit in the owner's manual to find the fuse box diagrams, and after looking at it found that #5 is for the Data Link Connector and is a 10 amp fuse. It also just so happens that there is no fuse in the #5 slot.
On top of this there were four fuses attached to the back of the panel I had to pull of to get to the fuse board. Given that the amperages for these four were graduated lowest to highest in accordance with the ratings I saw in the book I'm assuming these are replacements, but the 10 amp fuse looked like it had been inserted at some point due to some scoring on the prongs. Not wanting to make any assumptions I didn't put it in just yet, also I noted some of the fuses were inserted in different ways and didn't want to just run off and jam things in here and there without knowing what I was doing.
So.. the plan thus far is to try to dig up more detailed information on the fuse box and hopefully hit autozone up again later this evening. So far the truck seems to be taking continued use in stride though. No noticeable variations on top of what I've already described. Just waiting for the gas tank to run a bit lower before I put one of the thus far mentioned cleaners in with a tank of higher octane fuel.
Last edited by WarHound^; Jul 7, 2005 at 06:26 PM.
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Righto, replacing the fuse remedied the being unable to get codes problem handily. As an added bonus I found out the fuse for the cigar lighter/power outlet was blown and now it's working nicely as well. Don't really have a need for it, but it is at least one less thing not working.
The important things, i.e. the codes:
P0401 and P0402, which the ODB-II document in the tech info sticky say are EGR flow insufficient and excessive respectively. While I may be able to get this information sorted out on my own, I of course have only vague ideas (or none) as far as what this information translates to. The autozone attendant was nice enough to pop the hood and poke his finger at the device itself though. Now if only it looked like something individual as opposed to making about as much sense to me as 90% of all the other strange objects hiding under the hood =]. The only thing I came up with after thinking about it was that the word flow is involved, and that to me means air pressure in some fashion.
Given this guess and the importance of regulating air flow vs. fuel in most of the discussions I've read or heard, would this be high on the list of possibilities for a root cause of the truck running roughly?
Thanks muchly.
The important things, i.e. the codes:
P0401 and P0402, which the ODB-II document in the tech info sticky say are EGR flow insufficient and excessive respectively. While I may be able to get this information sorted out on my own, I of course have only vague ideas (or none) as far as what this information translates to. The autozone attendant was nice enough to pop the hood and poke his finger at the device itself though. Now if only it looked like something individual as opposed to making about as much sense to me as 90% of all the other strange objects hiding under the hood =]. The only thing I came up with after thinking about it was that the word flow is involved, and that to me means air pressure in some fashion.
Given this guess and the importance of regulating air flow vs. fuel in most of the discussions I've read or heard, would this be high on the list of possibilities for a root cause of the truck running roughly?
Thanks muchly.
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Elder User
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Northwest Indiana
Sounds like the DPFE sensor, about $50 at fordparts.com or about $80 from a dealer. It's a very common Ford problem. It's easy to change out.
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From: SW Va
Ok good job getting the codes pulled.
Those codes would make me suspect the DPFE transducer, which controls the EGR valve. DPFE = Differential Pressure Feedback
If you don't get enough EGR, then combustion chamber temperatures rise & can cause pinging, too much EGR & you'll loose power.
So you need to dtermine if the DPFE is bad, or maybe has an external problem with a vacuum line or piping connection, to the DPFE or RGR valve, or gasket or loose mounting bolts.
DPFE failures are a common problem on Rangers.
If you do a site search, there are nice pictures of it posted. Easy to get to & change out, if you think it's bad,
Those codes would make me suspect the DPFE transducer, which controls the EGR valve. DPFE = Differential Pressure Feedback
If you don't get enough EGR, then combustion chamber temperatures rise & can cause pinging, too much EGR & you'll loose power.
So you need to dtermine if the DPFE is bad, or maybe has an external problem with a vacuum line or piping connection, to the DPFE or RGR valve, or gasket or loose mounting bolts.
DPFE failures are a common problem on Rangers.
If you do a site search, there are nice pictures of it posted. Easy to get to & change out, if you think it's bad,
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,858
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From: Friendswood, Texas
Warhound,
Not sure what you do for a living but for someone who claims to have little mechanical knowledge, you seem to be doing a very good job of troubleshooting your problem. Everything you are doing thus far is right on. Folks are also giving you good advise on the possible source of your problem. I'm sure that you will have it running like a clock in very short order. Best thing that you are doing is fixing the problem now as opposed to just living with it.
Not sure what you do for a living but for someone who claims to have little mechanical knowledge, you seem to be doing a very good job of troubleshooting your problem. Everything you are doing thus far is right on. Folks are also giving you good advise on the possible source of your problem. I'm sure that you will have it running like a clock in very short order. Best thing that you are doing is fixing the problem now as opposed to just living with it.
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I have the same '99 engine and had the same codes. It turned out to be the DPFE sensor, unfortunately I did not read the forum first and ended replaced the EGR valve, EGR solenoid and finally the DPFE sensor.
The sensor is easy to remove, 2 screws and 2 hoses. just mark which one is the HP and LP so you connect them to the correct port on the new sensor. It's located on the front of the throttle body. 15 minutes tops. good luck
The sensor is easy to remove, 2 screws and 2 hoses. just mark which one is the HP and LP so you connect them to the correct port on the new sensor. It's located on the front of the throttle body. 15 minutes tops. good luck
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Right then. I took another trip to autozone yesterday and unfortunatly they sold their last in stock DPFE sensor that I needed, and it will be a day or so until they get more in. In the meantime I would like to pick your collective brains a bit more and get a little further into troubleshooting the EGR valve itself. A friend suggested I look into it just for safety's sake, and since I'm just waiting for a part now, it seemed the thing to do.
There are quite a few threads asking about this particular issue (testing the EGR valve) lying about all over the place, probably don't need to point this out since most of you have already answered questions in them =). In more than a few of them there are details on a quick test you can do to see if the EGR valve itself is the source of the problem, or is at least in good working order. The test itself involves applying vacuum to a select hose , and seeing if the engine stumbles or stalls out while it's running and idle. After reading a bit more and looking at the EGR valve I was at a bit of a loss as to which hose to mess around with, but I tried a couple that seemed to apply anyway.
<LINK>Here is a picture of my EGR valve and the hoses around it, at least I should hope it's the EGR valve, as it's what the AZ attendant poked at and it matches other reference diagrams I've seen. Appologies if there are objections to using imageshack, my own webspace URL has a filtered word in it and the link gets messed with no matter how I try to mask it.
The hoses that I messed around with are numbers one and two. Normally they are connected together as shown in the picture. After deciding to start there I worked them apart and gave a pull on hose number two to start. Nothing was really going on with it, and applying vacuum to it didn't have any effect. Hose number one was a bit different, as it was already pulling air in and I was a bit jittery about sucking on it for fear of loosing my teeth as I'd rather like to keep them. I went ahead and gave it a pull anyway, to no effect on the idling engine.
The questions: Is it hose number four I should have been trying this with? As in pull it off the valve and apply vacuum to the end of it (hose number four itself)? I have noticed in some of the other descriptions of this test that you should have a bit of spare hose handy to connect to *something* and apply vacuum to. After rolling it over in the brainbox the point on the EGR valve that hose number four connects to would seem to be the only likely candidate to perform this on, as after taking hose number four off of it there wouldn't be anything to apply vacuum to save the top of the EGR valve itself and you'd probably want a bit of hose to help out if this were the case. As a point of note I did give hose number four a slight tug, but it didn't seem to want to come off readily. This is understandable as you wouldn't really want a hose to be able to come off incredibly easily, but I'm not one to force things if I'm not 100% sure they should be, hence I decided to wait and ask questions here before running off and doing as such.
Point number three in the picture is just where the two hoses end up running into a bit of tubing. I mainly marked it for reference, or in the event it's where I actually need to be messing around.
There are quite a few threads asking about this particular issue (testing the EGR valve) lying about all over the place, probably don't need to point this out since most of you have already answered questions in them =). In more than a few of them there are details on a quick test you can do to see if the EGR valve itself is the source of the problem, or is at least in good working order. The test itself involves applying vacuum to a select hose , and seeing if the engine stumbles or stalls out while it's running and idle. After reading a bit more and looking at the EGR valve I was at a bit of a loss as to which hose to mess around with, but I tried a couple that seemed to apply anyway.
<LINK>Here is a picture of my EGR valve and the hoses around it, at least I should hope it's the EGR valve, as it's what the AZ attendant poked at and it matches other reference diagrams I've seen. Appologies if there are objections to using imageshack, my own webspace URL has a filtered word in it and the link gets messed with no matter how I try to mask it.
The hoses that I messed around with are numbers one and two. Normally they are connected together as shown in the picture. After deciding to start there I worked them apart and gave a pull on hose number two to start. Nothing was really going on with it, and applying vacuum to it didn't have any effect. Hose number one was a bit different, as it was already pulling air in and I was a bit jittery about sucking on it for fear of loosing my teeth as I'd rather like to keep them. I went ahead and gave it a pull anyway, to no effect on the idling engine.
The questions: Is it hose number four I should have been trying this with? As in pull it off the valve and apply vacuum to the end of it (hose number four itself)? I have noticed in some of the other descriptions of this test that you should have a bit of spare hose handy to connect to *something* and apply vacuum to. After rolling it over in the brainbox the point on the EGR valve that hose number four connects to would seem to be the only likely candidate to perform this on, as after taking hose number four off of it there wouldn't be anything to apply vacuum to save the top of the EGR valve itself and you'd probably want a bit of hose to help out if this were the case. As a point of note I did give hose number four a slight tug, but it didn't seem to want to come off readily. This is understandable as you wouldn't really want a hose to be able to come off incredibly easily, but I'm not one to force things if I'm not 100% sure they should be, hence I decided to wait and ask questions here before running off and doing as such.
Point number three in the picture is just where the two hoses end up running into a bit of tubing. I mainly marked it for reference, or in the event it's where I actually need to be messing around.
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From: SW Va
Why not purchase a good repair manual for your ride at your favorite autoparts store, they're only about $15.
If your lucky maybe you can find on at the library.
They will give good instuctions for troubleshooting the EGR system.
You could probably make use of a "loan a tool program" that many autoarts stores have, for any tools you may need for your tests. Many will do this for a refundable deposit.
I have repair manuals for allmy rides, they've paid for themselves many times over!!!
If your lucky maybe you can find on at the library.
They will give good instuctions for troubleshooting the EGR system.
You could probably make use of a "loan a tool program" that many autoarts stores have, for any tools you may need for your tests. Many will do this for a refundable deposit.
I have repair manuals for allmy rides, they've paid for themselves many times over!!!
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Hose number four is the one you would need to remove. The vacuum would need to be applied to the EGR valve. Applying the vacuum will open the EGR and allow the exhaust gas to flow into the engine making it stumble. Attach a piece of hose to the EGE and apply the vacuum (use your mouth if you have nothing else). If the engine doesn't stumble or stall then the EGR probably has a ruptured diaphragm or is stuck. My money is on the DPFE sensor. Actually I'm surprised they had it, I had to go to the dealer to get mine.
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