Four link and other questions
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Hampstead, NC
Four link and other questions
I think I've decided on what I'm going to do with my Ranger (in my gallery) I want to build a new frame (channel or rect. tube?) and install 4 links and coils front and rear. I also want to get rid of the GMC 2 1/2 ton axles and get a pair of steering Rockwells for it (better driveline angles with the 110" WB) and run either 44" Boggers or 49" IROKS(for trai use)and maybe a set of 52" tractor tires for the mud. What should size and type steel (DOM tubing) should the links be made from? What about rod ends (type and size)? Should I go with coils (about $180/pair) or coil overs ($$$/each?) The truck will be use mostly for mud but maybe some trail use as well if I can find any near me.
So, is my thinking way off base or what? Please guide me, O masters of off roading.
So, is my thinking way off base or what? Please guide me, O masters of off roading.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Oregon
Naturally, I'd say go tube on your frame over channel or box...but I understand tube makes the fab that much more complicated. If you want to keep it simple go with box. Now, I'm taking a stab at your link size, because I've never four linked rockies myself. But I'd say your minimum tube should be 2" x .25" wall 1026 DOM. Screw on matching heim joints, and save your coin and just get coils. This sounds like my next build......but thats down the road a bit.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Neenah, Wisconsin
I'd recomend going with a 4130 chromoly steel tubing for its superior strength to weight ratio. You could probably go with a 1.75OD .188 wall tubing for the links, and as pro said, a rectangular tube frame is the easiest to build...
Last edited by Ryan50hrl; Mar 3, 2004 at 09:32 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Oregon
4130 IS strong as hell, but the problem with using it in a link system is that it is extremely rigid. It has no flex or give and will fracture where the 1026 DOM will flex and spring back. Plus it would be awfull expensive...
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Neenah, Wisconsin
i used the 4130 in the links and the frame when we built the baja cars for my race team...we never managed to break anything on them and we used to air the cars out pretty good.....it gets my recomendation but thats just me.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Oregon
Oh, I imagine it would be fine on a baja racer, despite the shock loads those rigs take they weigh next to nothing. I was taking into consideration the immense loads imposed by a fullsize with Rockwells. Not saying 4130 wouldn't work, because it would, I'm just leaning towards the 1026. To be honest, since it sounds like he wants to save coin I imagine that rules the chromoly out.
Ryan, I didn't know you had a race team and ran baja...cool man, tell us more about that. I always thought that would be hella-fun.
Ryan, I didn't know you had a race team and ran baja...cool man, tell us more about that. I always thought that would be hella-fun.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,698
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From: Neenah, Wisconsin
ahh..i forgot about the economy part....so ya, i'm going to have to agree, the chromoly is a couple times as much. On another note, i just looked up mds for both steels, and the mod of elasticity is the same. www.matweb.com tensile strength of 4130 is twice that of 1026....just a little random trivia for you all.
I designed, built and raced mini baja cars up at college. Built them from the ground up, and your right, the cars weighed next to nothing. the things weren't fast by any stretch of the imagination, 40 mph tops, but then again they would jump like crazy, 4 wheel ifs with coil overs. the last one i built had 18 inches of wheel travel. Single seaters with *cough cough 5 hp motors.....supposedly...
....the things would pull pretty good wheelies and would fly over just about anything. I keep thinkin i'm going to build one in 4wd for my own personal use....but i don' have a whole lot of time anymore....
I designed, built and raced mini baja cars up at college. Built them from the ground up, and your right, the cars weighed next to nothing. the things weren't fast by any stretch of the imagination, 40 mph tops, but then again they would jump like crazy, 4 wheel ifs with coil overs. the last one i built had 18 inches of wheel travel. Single seaters with *cough cough 5 hp motors.....supposedly...
....the things would pull pretty good wheelies and would fly over just about anything. I keep thinkin i'm going to build one in 4wd for my own personal use....but i don' have a whole lot of time anymore....
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Oregon
Cool stuff Ryan. Big sky makes up for big horse 
I haven't checked out that site yet but I'll have too, must be a good resource. Funny, I was always taught that chromoly although much stronger, was in essence more "brittle" than dom. I'm shocked to hear that their elasticity is the same. Learn something new every day...
I haven't checked out that site yet but I'll have too, must be a good resource. Funny, I was always taught that chromoly although much stronger, was in essence more "brittle" than dom. I'm shocked to hear that their elasticity is the same. Learn something new every day...
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Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 4
From: Neenah, Wisconsin
anyhow....the plan is to build a baja with a locked rear, and 25 horse...in a 300 lb car....ya gotta love tube steel... the 4wd version i've figured is going to weigh in at closer to 500 lbs...which means i'm going to need a bit more power...
the 4wd version i've figured is going to weigh in at closer to 500 lbs...which means i'm going to need a bit more power...
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 4
From: Neenah, Wisconsin
well we used brigs motors for the ones we raced...supposedly they remained stock....but rarely actually did. I'm thinkin of putting in a motorcycle engine in the next one i build, now that theres no engine restrictions since i just want something to wheel, i can do what i want. i really want some more power for my own....55mph seems a whole lot better...
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Hampstead, NC
I do agree that the 4130 is quite a bit stonger than 1026, but for my application, is 4130 worth the extra cost? I know using round tube for the frame would be nice, but using 2"x6" rectangle box tubing would be easier to mount all the components, such as spring buckets, link mounts and cross members. 2"x6"x1/4" is 12.2 lb./ft. Of course, the truck will have a roll cage built into the cab off the frame. I'll be using 9" lift coils for 73-79 F-150's and coil buckets from the same.
I have an uncle that works for a steel yard, so I may be able to get all the steel for his cost, but still don't know if I want to use 4130 for cost purposes.
What rod ends should I use?
I have an uncle that works for a steel yard, so I may be able to get all the steel for his cost, but still don't know if I want to use 4130 for cost purposes.
What rod ends should I use?
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 8,238
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From: Oregon
I'd use a minimum of 1" heims, but I think you should look at the 1 1/4" ones with that drivetrain. I admittantly have a tendency to over-enginneer. www.qa-1.com is a quality source for serious heim joints. I'd keep normal TREs on your steering though, heims are fine for links but can get sloppy over TREs in steering applications.
Ryan, you need to put an 1800cid engine out of one of those Honda vtx 1800 bikes into your racers
Ryan, you need to put an 1800cid engine out of one of those Honda vtx 1800 bikes into your racers
Last edited by proeliator; Mar 4, 2004 at 03:23 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 4
From: Neenah, Wisconsin
Something you might want to consider is 4130 for bottom links that take more abuse, and 1026 for top links....but like pro i just usually overengineer....
Hey pro...an 1800 cid motor huh...thats pretty big....don't ya mean 1800cc.....
Hey pro...an 1800 cid motor huh...thats pretty big....don't ya mean 1800cc.....