Trying to explain to a buddy that his payload is not enough for his trailer.
He keeps saying that with his weight distribution hitch he is ok as he is shifting the weight to the steer axle and eliminating if from the tongue weight.
I try and explain payload is the TOTAL weight of EVERYTHING that the sits on the four tires, makes no difference if you are sitting in the front seat, back seat, or up on the cab roof.
If your trailer is putting 700 pounds on the hitch, that all goes toward your payload....period.
Why do people think that weight just disappears if its not on the rear axle anymore?

 

Well.... a WDH also transfers some of the tongue weight back to the trailer.

If your trailer has 700 pounds of tongue weight and you properly set up a WDH, you will be putting some of that 700 pounds back on the trailer. Only way to be sure how much is to go to the scales.

Is your friend really exceeding his payload with tongue weight?

 

We would need a bit more information on what your buddy's setup is, but I presume you're telling us he has a 700 lb hitch weight to hook up.

MOST half ton trucks are okay with that kind of weight. Not all. So he likely IS just fine as long as he's got the weight set up right.

He's correct that the WDH is putting weight on the steer axle, but SOME weight is still on the rear axle and as pointed out some of it also goes back to the trailer. That's what the D stands for here - distribution.

YOU are also correct that even with it distributed, it still counts against his payload AND his axle ratings (which are arguably more important than payload, because sometimes payload is an artificially limited number - see Super Duties). As pointed out, the only way to know for SURE is to head to a set of scales, get a base weight of the truck, get a weight with the truck/trailer combo with NO WDH, then get a weight WITH the WDH.

Again, the only way for us to give accurate feedback is with more info, and the BEST way is to hit scales.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but can not make them drink. Maybe find a video that helps explain to him.

 

He needs to get his split weights at a cat scale.

1) 4 axles - steer, drive, trailer pin, trailer axles
2) 3 axles when hooked up no WD
3) 3 axles hooked up and WD on.

It will NOT be what everyone is expecting.

 

There is no need to unhitch and get the tongue jack on a separate scale pad to calculate the accurate weight, it also very poor etiquette to unhitch on a commercial scale that truckers also use to earn a living. All you need are the truck solo, truck and trailer w/o WD and truck and trailer with WD setup.

 

The numbers I gave are just examples, not real, but he is over as himself, wife, and dogs and cooler in the cab in 700 lbs. He carries firewood, etc, in the bed.
The weight just doesn't disappear because you redistributed it......the only way you can lighten the weight on the TV is to move more weight in the trailer BACK behind the trailer axles like a tetter totter.....and remember the fat kid always launched the lighter ones into the air. I see some here think you can pretend you can raise your payload by a WDH....... you can't.

 

nah you can do this, talk to the weighmaster first if you are nervous. been there done that for over 4 decades, its only scary the first time. Most scale traffic not at a quarry - by far - is now rv related for really no other reason than most truck traffic is intermodal or palletized - most drivers would not know how to slide today if you paid them. There are no lines of irate drivers waiting and the scale appreciates the 20 bux every time you push the button. just pop over to any RV supporting website and read the same advice from tens of thousands of other owners.

you need to SEE where the far overloaded tongue/axle weights are going. with the new sexy of the front bedroom and the attending basement storage most people are well well over 1000lbs on the pin. I have personally seen >2K on the pin on only 25-29 ft trailers before WD. even with 1200# bars, they are STILL going to be over placard. You kinda are legally responsible if something happens and john Q law peeks into it - which they will. The fines are no less real. (and carry your slips IN the truck. DOT will pull over a noticeable sag or tail wag as its kinda the thing they are trained for and kinda their 9-5 daily job.....)

The carrying capacity of the hitch is listed as WC and WD. The WD means weight distributing and it means the max weight on the pin BEFORE the bars are hooked up. I can easily justify scrapping out myself a dozen NEW trucks every year because they distorted the weakened hydroformed steel frames or outright tore out hitch bolts. But because they cost so dang much, the insurers will pay 10K to have 150lbs of steel welded on to something that will never be 100% right ever again. If anyone remembers, I was the one who came up with and posted the 'ford rusty frame fix' for the OBS trucks

But like I said, GET THE NUMBERS. they WILL NOT be what you think they are. do not guess. do not suppose. we either want this right, or we do not. ymmv - lol my experience has taught/continues to teach me not everyone cares about right.... if the scale sez you have 3547 lbs on the real axle as hooked up then Im betting you have 3547lbs on the rear axle as hooked up....

signed: retired, but still certified mechanic, PA licensed frame mechanic/inspector, big rig trucker, OEM and aftermarket hitch installer, good sam rv tech and RVIA tech writer who also happened to do a coupla fords when he used to have time...

 

the problem with that is that you place large masses at both ends of the trailer. it has a large polar moment of rotation (or, larger than before) and it makes it harder for the truck to act against it in sway, and 60mph down a highway an a wind blast come up, wind is powerfull and WILL move you. Let a big truck roll past you when you are 60 and they are 70...by the movement telegraphed thru the steering world illustrates the effect of winds on a giant sail not supported soley at the ends like a big truck. I prefer to remove load - period - you will be surprised the junk people load in - and if not that, move to OVER the axles. Problem with that tho, the trailer OEMs are shysters and they want the coaches with goodies and slides to be 'half ton truck rated' most are in or around the magic '7600lbs GVWR' and if you look at the placard, they state with with the idea that the WD pushes back onto the axles to make them 7000lb with 600 on the pin. problem is, you MOST LIKELY have a pair of dexter 3500# axles (lets hope so and not lippert or god forbid 'furyan') so you are going down the road at 100% axle load AND I got 10 bux sez your springs are all used up and in the infamous 'W' (go look) when that happens ALL dampening is in the tire sidewalls and no one is braggin the chinese made 'radials' are holding up. its not strictly rocket science (but there is math) however initial setup is a critical part of the whole 'hit the road and go rv-ing and get home in one piece' jingle.

 

My first trailer, well actually second, my first one was a tent trailer, the second one at 30 feet had 3500# Lipperts on spread axles.....and if you did the math it wouldn't carry the trailer max payload straight up, you had to deduct the weight you put on your hitch to get under the 7k total allowed on the axles. So, what eventually happened is that it all failed, the tires even rubbed in the wheel wells. It took a lot of work to get CW and Lipperts to correct it, and I still had out of pocket expenses, but just as soon as I got it back I traded it in for a smaller trailer that weighs even more, but is built with Dexters and bigger frame, etc. Yeah, the fit and finish inside will always leave much to be desired, but the bones are good, I can live with that. Also, one element to towing no one even mentions, yes, we get lots of talk about sway and its effects, but what about "force" the energy exerted on all of the components in a vertical motion because of road conditions. How do you calculate the force of thousands of pounds downward upon your tires, axles, hitch, etc....... that is REAL ENERGY just as much as the wind blowing in a hurricane..... and it seems the roads are getting worse (as) because their is a movement to get away from fossil fuel and single vehicle transportation in favor of mass transit projects, etc...and you just want to say, well I might be a little over a already iffy MAX number...... but I will be fine. Me, I'd rather play Russian roulette with a empty gun.

 

None of us here think you can raise your payload with a WDH, and none of us have suggested that. We haven't been given adequate information to really give proper feedback on his situation - heck we don't even know what kind of truck he's driving. Is it a half ton, a Super Duty, an HD GM product? You didn't say, and didn't give us any specs on his trailer either. With at least some basic details of everything we could give you a better answer.

For instance, my 2500 Power Wagon had a payload of like 1600 lbs, but my axle ratings were the same as a standard 2500. I put our travel trailer, which has in my estimate a tongue weight of about 750 lbs (advertised at 650 but we know that's never correct, but I've never run it over a scale either), on it and had zero issues once I had the WDH set up right, and was never over payload even with firewood, cooler, bikes, and family/dogs in the truck. There are SOME half ton trucks with even MORE payload than that...and there are some that are less than 1k. My current truck's payload is WAY more than that, and I likely don't even need the WDH for my combo.

We don't even know the brand of the trailer, or the layout of it - with that information we could at least use advertised specs for both vehicles and give you our opinion on whether he is over or not. With nothing to go off of other than you thinking he's over...we're going to play devil's advocate and refuse to say if you're correct or completely wrong.

Regardless, the ONLY way to know with 100% certainty is to head to a set of scales, take his curb weight (found from GVWR - payload on the door sticker), get a weight of the loaded truck, a weight of the loaded truck + trailer - WDH, and a weight of the loaded truck + trailer + WDH. That will tell you if he's over payload or not.

The other option is to let him run with it, and if he truly IS overloaded, hope you're not around him or with him when/if something goes wrong. Because let's face it, most people don't like to be told that what they're doing is wrong, and likely won't change what they're doing until it negatively affects them.

 

How can you set up a WDH give you a higher payload rating?
I think that is part of the confusion.
If you are already within specs, it will make towing easier to handle, like power steering adds to ease of steering.
He thinks he is ok because the trailer itself weighs less than what the truck is advertised to be able to pull.
That payload is a suggested number, because if your can carry 1000#'s ok, but not 1001#'s pounds because its now over weight, is silly, and they know that and factor that in when assigning these numbers to a truck and knowing people will push the upper thresholds of towing ability.

 

As has been indicated by a number of posters, there are a ton (pun intended) of variables for safe towing beyond whether a WDH will make a meaningful difference in a given circumstance. Based on the limited information we have here, I couldn't guess as to whether the aforementioned individual is being sensible or not. But as 99Powerstroked pointed out, I did not read where anyone suggested payload could be raised with a WDH.

 

Also worth mentioning that I take things like axle ratings and tire ratings very seriously. Payload and and tow ratings... not so much. A friend of mine doesn't tow heavy any more, so he moved from decades of duallies to a brand new half ton. He did note with a chuckle that his new half ton is rated to tow more than his '03 F350 PSD crew cab dually was. That gave me a chuckle, too.

 

I have never said a WDH can give a higher payload. Ever. Nor has anyone else in this thread. What it does do is redistribute the weight OFF the rear axle and put it on the front axle and the trailer axles. It does NOT increase payload in any way, shape, or form. It CAN bring you back into spec - by putting part of the load BACK on the trailer axles.

Payload is a guide. Axle ratings are the definitive answer. Even so, just because a trailer weighs less than what the truck is rated to pull doesn't mean it is or isn't over payload when hitched up, even WITH a WDH. Those tow ratings are achieved with a flatbed trailer with the load dialed in to stay in the 10-15% tongue weight range. RVs usually have a higher tongue weight, and it can't really be adjusted because the weight distribution inside the trailer is static. And this is where people tend to get in trouble.

That said, we STILL have no information on what your friend is working with - what kind of truck? What trailer? Those are the MINIMUMS we would need to be able to give you a rough guess as to whether you're right or not.

This is going to be my last comment on this thread until I see some concrete information given to us. I'm not going to blindly back someone up in their opinion when they won't provide any data to back up said opinion.