All,

A bit over 2 weeks ago at a hair under 175k my HPFP blew - 2011 6.7 job 2. I've been waiting for the dealer to diagnose and finally got, what I am interpreting as, a preliminary repair quote.

To my surprise, there is zip, nada, nothing down-stream of the HPFP mentioned in the quote. That scares me.

Question:
Does anyone know of any HPFP grenades that did not result in metal fragments going down-stream??

I think it was last year, I had the truck serviced with a rear diff leak and had them look at injectors. I was getting some codes for them (something about a tuning limit having been reached, computer is stock - I've never tuned anything myself - only have ever had a scan gauge for watching EGT's and reading codes). Looking back on it, that was going to be a pretty hefty service bill with the injectors - and had we done that and had this happen now that would have been a real pisser. However, the injectors and rails are on the bucket list of things I'm afraid of right now - I've never known an HPFP to not go without taking the rest of things down-stream with them. Hence the initial post here...

The two destroyed "parts" are the pump and right side intake manifold. I am hoping to get there this afternoon and put my eyeballs on it and discuss with the dealer/tech.

Thoughts?

For what it is worth, there were symptoms prior to going. I hadn't driven the truck in a while and the few times I started it before were just to move it a few feet to get in and out of a garage. The day it went I started it a few minutes before I hit the road and after a few minutes of idling there was a tapping sound like a valve tap. When I hit the road the tapping was still there. I stopped about 3/4 mile down the road and checked fluids (no leaks anywhere and I've never had an issue with loosing fluids, but worth a check). Everything was good. So I started it again and the tapping was still there.

Looking back on it, I knew something wasn't right. However, I took the risk because I was helping family. We had someone's health tank fast and pass away just a couple days after this and we were in the process of moving them - we were loading stuff in the truck to get to where they were moving. So I crossed my fingers. It made it about 75 miles and once we had things we were picking up and were back on the road it dropped the pump going down the road. I got several alarms on the LCD - one of them was low oil. They went so fast I couldn't read them all. The engine just stopped dead. I was on a 2 lane state route and just happened to be next to a cemetery so I coasted what little I could to get a bit further off the shoulder of the road. When I got under the truck fuel was just pouring out. My girlfriend was with me in her car, so she turned around and we figured out a tow. On the up side, the further I went with the load the closer I got to the dealer. So the tow was only a few miles

We were able to get our SUV pretty quick. We were going to do a cook-out where we were going and had the BBQ grill for it. So we got it in the SUV instead (had to take it apart to do it) and buggied on the rest of the trip. By the time we got there food was already cooking in the oven, so we didn't get to use the grill, but we still had our get-together. These past 2 weeks have been crazy to say the least. We shanghi'd another pickup and trailer 2 days ago to prep the estate. That was the last of 3-4 trips.

Edit:

I happened to see the very recent thread on CP4 pump failures here also (link below). So it is said up front here - there has never been DEF in the fuel tank. I'm the original owner and do oil changes every 5k and fuel filters every 15k (every 3ord oil change). Early on I recall discussion on the root causes of these failures and water in the fuel was a large culprit, as was poor fuel (low lubricity). I started using PM22 additive early on - around 20-50k miles I think? In the winter I use PM23 (antigel) when its real cold. Regardless of the water separator, emulsified/dissolved water can still get through the OEM water separator. If I were to guess - if the failure was due to corrosion or deterioration of the pump then it could be tracked down to just that - emulsified/dissolved water getting through. However, there may be other failure modes.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...p-failure.html

 

Sorry to hear about it Steve. I do know that there 1 part number from Ford that has all the needed parts(imjectors, fuel lines, HPFP), so maybe thats what you are seeing? Let us know what comes of this. I remember you on here when you took delivery of that 2011. Its served you well - 175K miles. Get her fixed up, and probably go another 175K.

 

Its not going anywhere, worst case I'll haul it home and park it for a while. But I have a few options - doing the work myself, or some of it - I could yank the cab and engine and take the engine somewhere to get worked on minus truck, also. We'll see.

The dealer did not give me any PN's - just descriptions - and there is a whole page of them, not one PN for the pump. The line item for it is a bit over $1100 though, if that means anything.

 

Update thus far -

They pulled a fuel valve/sensor to check for metal fragments and it was, for the most part, very clean. There were some tiny flakes but not what anyone would have expected.

With the known ticking prior to detonation - there is question with injectors. The tech did not think there was any way to inspect the fuel system to come to any measure of level of contamination in the rails or injectors, just the valve/sensor screen that was pulled.

With the earlier question of injectors and there still being some lack of confidence in the cleanliness of the rest of the high pressure system, regardless of what the valve/sensor screen shows, we're thinking the best thing we can do is freshen up the whole high pressure circuit.

We're waiting on a quote to detail just that. I presume that will be next week before we get it back.

They pulled the EGR cooler housing and dropped coolant for their inspection. Since its already down that far I think getting the EGR cooler core replaced is a good idea. And now that I think about it - have the EGR valve at least inspected and cleaned, if not replaced. That could cause a headache. I do not believe I've ever had an EGR valve replaced but I know there were housings replaced once under warranty as the tech doing the work at the time felt the manifolds were corroded/eaten up more than he was comfortable with. I will have to do some digging to see if the EGR valve was replaced at that time or not.

Edit - looks like 96k-ish the EGR cooler core, valve, and bypass valve were replaced. So at ~175k-ish that is about 80k-ish miles on the current EGR valve(s).

 

Looking at the updated quote here - everything is still under $10k.

I am a bit baffled by this.

Supposedly the work can be done cab-on. The access to what they would work on can be done from the top. That doesn't jive right to me. If it can be - that is a blessing, but I am concerned. I have been under the impression that the cab has to come off for much work on the engine and overall repairs I've heard of between the forum here and in service shops have ranged between $10-20k over the past 10 years. I don't want to "rock the boat" on anything, but I am concerned and the idea here is to keep the truck on the road for as long as I can - and if the path we're starting to go down here on this one is leaving some stones unturned - what are they? The last thing I want is all this work to be done and 10k miles down the road end up in a situation needing to do it all over again. Although, I was told (yet to have details verified) that the repairs would carry a 2 year warranty (no mention of mileage in that period). That is a lot of comfort, but that doesn't answer turning over stones.

Thoughts?

 

That is unfortunate. Have they inspected the tank and filters yet to see if metal bits made it to those areas? I'd think replacing the entire HP circuit is a good idea just to avoid spending half that and then having to do it fully again.

$9,000 is what it cost for a 2013 company F-350 several years ago which seems to be on the low end for replacing the high pressure fuel system (HPFP and injectors) and cleaning the rest (lines to/from tank and the tank). It wasn't my vehicle, I have always assumed they replaced everything high pressure but I actually don't know about other low pressure components like the fuel cooler and if new lines or not. I think cost depends on the region (maybe due to labor?) because I agree, there have been several reports of $11,000+ for the same repairs here on FTE.

It's hard to remember from early discussions here but I think there are only three repairs of the early 6.7L that require the cab off, it's just that other complex repairs are easier with the cab off but could be done cab on.

Since Oct 2013, Motorcraft parts "over the counter" are 2 years, unlimited miles and I think honored for commercial use too.

I'd ask them what they are replacing or cleaning in this diagram:

 

Also, I was thinking you replaced your EGR cooler core more recently than 96k. You mentioned needing your third at 151,000 in 2018. Your valve might be due but maybe don't need to spend the money on a core yet.

 

Yes - everything on the low pressure side through the secondary (engine side) fuel filter is OK.

The tech said he was able to get 300psi of fuel pressure under crank, but no start. I don't know the viability of this test or data point (the pressure) - but the cranking concerns me from the stand point of not knowing whats in the cylinders.

However, it was described to me that if there was metal fragment contamination behind the injectors that the contamination wouldn't make it to the cylinders.

I have heard of injectors blowing tips off in the cylinders. If this is the case - there would be damage inside what ever cylinder(s) are affected by what injector(s). However, that gets back to the tech stating there wasn't a good way to "inspect" that end of the fuel system - and also leads in to why we're thinking to freshen up that whole system with new stuff. That, however, will not answer the question (however low of a risk as it may be?) of the condition of the cylinders - just that new parts are going on top of the cylinders (injectors, rails, lines, pump, etc).

 

You are correct. That was the last one I did, myself since the truck was out of warranty. Its held up great since then. I presume you pulled that from a thread here I had, I don't have the exact reference in front of me - but what you say around 151k miles sounds about right. That is 23k or so on the core.

However, to keep things in perspective on the repair - the coolant is dropped. For coolant to go back in it should be flushed. For an EGR cooler core to go in the same cycle should be done. So if we already have the coolant out and a flush is part of the deal here - if the core plugs in 10-20k miles I'm back to needing to flush coolant (best practice) all over again. I've done it, and the core replacement, and have the stuff to do it here but it is time and effort to do it. Lots to consider.

 

Thanks for the info.

Yeah was thinking you had a core replaced higher mileage than that and found the thread to confirm.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post17997766

Yes, if it's just adding the core part ($347 MSRP dealer price) and based on your luck with coolers, I suppose that idea makes sense to heavily consider replacement. Otherwise it's $1,000 ish to pay to have it replaced later to your point with the extra work and labor (or your time and effort). The EGR valve is $522 MSRP.

 

So heres the break-down so far:
- We're doing the whole "refreshing" of the high pressure system. This is with the "decontamination kit". I don't have the PN for that, but it is the HPFP, rails, injectors, etc. I triple checked on the injectors as I was looking in to having that done in the past year or so (glad I didn't have it done then).

- We're also having them do both the EGR cooler core and valve.

I am going to try and get over there soon and check over the EGR pipes. They are a good bit rusted, however I haven't looked at them that closely to see how deep the rust goes. They've been that way for a few years - they were that way when I did the EGR core replacement a few years ago, so as time goes on they will just get worse.

I also mentioned for the tech to inspect things as he goes so if there is any question of things as this progresses we can look at things together while its apart. I do feel comfortable with who is working on it and had a good conversation with him the other day. I know where hes coming from and he knows where I'm coming from so that all goes together pretty good. I've always liked having conversations with techs to see where their thoughts and competentcy lie.

I do have some question of how much overall experience the tech has with this specific issue (HPFP failures and down-stream damage), but I got enough comfort level with his compentency overall as a tech I don't mind him working on it. That shop deals with a LOT of 6.7's, and always has, so as far as a shop for it to be in for the work - that's a prime spot for it and why we took it there.

No idea on timelines. When I talked to the tech he mentioned that the parts were hard to get at the moment. After setting things in motion I am not sure if that has any update, but from what I was told the other day it could be a good while yet - maybe a month or so. We'll see what comes in the way of updates as I get them.

 

I feel your taking the same path I would by replacing the entire fuel system as well as the EGR cooler and valve. It's better to have those things addressed while everything is apart and not have to worry about that in the near future. The 6.7l trucks prior to 2015 had issues with clogged EGR cooler cores. That issue was resolved in 2015 with a re-route of how the coolant cools the cooler.

I saved the following link that was posted here at some point in the past (most likely by Larry) so thought I would share it here. Fuel Contamination Kit

 

Excellent info. I was unaware there was a re-route for the coolant. I will check in to that.

 

I doubt you can make any changes to your model year regarding the EGR cooler core but I have been known to be wrong in the past.

Here is a little bit of info on the different versions of the early 6.7l engines. 6.7L Power Stroke Model Year Changes

 

On 2nd look - the link you posted is for the high pressure fuel system decontamination kit - that has the high pressure fuel pump, rails, and injectors. That is already what they're replacing on the truck. I went digging in to the picture a bit to see what the parts were and they looked awfully familiar. The price of the kit didn't seem to line up with a coolant re-route, in my mind, either.

I'll dig in to things a bit on the coolant reroute, though. Like I said, I haven't heard of that before but that could just be that I didn't pick up on it earlier.