Water/methanol injection project in progress
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Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2013
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Water/methanol injection project in progress
In the parts gathering phase for a water/methonal injection kit for my 2019 f-450 6.7
recently did a DPK and while the intake manifold was off…did not like what I saw in terms of carbon. Hold up.
also, my regens have trouble getting below 10%, used to get 2% to 4% easy.
so on my 6.4 I had a boost driven AEM water/ methanol in her ruin system. The system worked great…power increase, cooling, cleaning of intake thru exhaust. Basically a feee lunch.
standard windshield washer fluid .
had it setup with 2 250ml nozzles and on this 6.7 plan on doing the same.
I just ordered a cold side intercooler pipe which has 3 NPTs. So the cold side will be a no brained.
want boost driven vs map or egt driven so I order a hot side intercooler pipe. Will either drill and bolt on a bung or do what I did on my 6.4 which was drill a hole for a grommet and push the boost sense tube thru the grimmest hole.
I need the stock tubes in case I have to roll back.
last time I used a version 2 boost driven AEM kit. This time around, looking for the new V3 AEM kit.
haven’t found it yet, but the hunt continues.
recently did a DPK and while the intake manifold was off…did not like what I saw in terms of carbon. Hold up.
also, my regens have trouble getting below 10%, used to get 2% to 4% easy.
so on my 6.4 I had a boost driven AEM water/ methanol in her ruin system. The system worked great…power increase, cooling, cleaning of intake thru exhaust. Basically a feee lunch.
standard windshield washer fluid .
had it setup with 2 250ml nozzles and on this 6.7 plan on doing the same.
I just ordered a cold side intercooler pipe which has 3 NPTs. So the cold side will be a no brained.
want boost driven vs map or egt driven so I order a hot side intercooler pipe. Will either drill and bolt on a bung or do what I did on my 6.4 which was drill a hole for a grommet and push the boost sense tube thru the grimmest hole.
I need the stock tubes in case I have to roll back.
last time I used a version 2 boost driven AEM kit. This time around, looking for the new V3 AEM kit.
haven’t found it yet, but the hunt continues.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 750
From: Texas
following
interesting at using the system to clean carbon and maybe help dpf be closer to zero
my regens bring it down to 0 at highway speeds pretty fast (30 miles or so)
but in town, it climbs to 85% pretty fast
sort of hovers between 70 and 85 % until it finally has had enough and does a regen
interesting at using the system to clean carbon and maybe help dpf be closer to zero
my regens bring it down to 0 at highway speeds pretty fast (30 miles or so)
but in town, it climbs to 85% pretty fast
sort of hovers between 70 and 85 % until it finally has had enough and does a regen
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Hotshot
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i looked at snow and too complicated.
snow wants you to drill into exhuast manifold and install their egt probe along with using a 5v MAP source of which they didn’t know where to tap on a powerstroke.
I used AEM before and it was simple and worked great. All you need is a 3/16th hole in your hot side and use a grommet to hold their boost sensing tube.
snow wants you to drill into exhuast manifold and install their egt probe along with using a 5v MAP source of which they didn’t know where to tap on a powerstroke.
I used AEM before and it was simple and worked great. All you need is a 3/16th hole in your hot side and use a grommet to hold their boost sensing tube.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 750
From: Texas
i had to go dig our my old 7.3 files on methanol/water
i had forgotten much about why and when. back then we didnt care about lower combustion temps and or exhaust gas compositions of harmful things the epa says we must reduce. we wanted more power at lower peak boost to save dollars on turbos and run circles around people.
very interested now,
dropping emissions, reducing combustion temps and reducing intake temps. 2 of the 3 are EXCELLENT for more hp from less fuel.
but reducing the already pretty darn clean emissions should really do wonders on the dpf and the whole system
will follow for sure, i see a new project in the coming months
i had forgotten much about why and when. back then we didnt care about lower combustion temps and or exhaust gas compositions of harmful things the epa says we must reduce. we wanted more power at lower peak boost to save dollars on turbos and run circles around people.
very interested now,
dropping emissions, reducing combustion temps and reducing intake temps. 2 of the 3 are EXCELLENT for more hp from less fuel.
but reducing the already pretty darn clean emissions should really do wonders on the dpf and the whole system
will follow for sure, i see a new project in the coming months
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,247
Likes: 7,667
From: Chino Valley, Arizona
defiantly interested. I would love to keep the dpf cleaner.
also anyone know the mix ratio for methanol to water?
I normally get methanol 100 gallons at a time.
also anyone know the mix ratio for methanol to water?
I normally get methanol 100 gallons at a time.
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Hotshot
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washer fluid is 20 to 30% methonal
Also, old stock washer fluid will cost nosing less, the methonal molecules can evaporate thru Contaners .
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 750
From: Texas
Any guess at what exhaust temps at Dpf might be after the methanol injection?
930f is what I find to be minimum temp to have it hot enough for passive regen.
so if we can further drop combustion temps and still have designed power. We can got rid of the Dpf. And maybe trim scr.
just saying from engineering .. get rid of this needless hot stuff
we know that's not going to happen. Epawants all ice. Engines to be dead. To many bureaucrat s think of black smoke rolling trucks when they think of desiels.. never mind in m8d 90s tgey were classed as low emission vehicles. I perfect tuned oil burner does not blow black smoke. And delivers great return on btu. Water and mentanolworked in ww2 in radialengines and works today. No reason msnufacters have not gone this way vice the urea and scr
930f is what I find to be minimum temp to have it hot enough for passive regen.
so if we can further drop combustion temps and still have designed power. We can got rid of the Dpf. And maybe trim scr.
just saying from engineering .. get rid of this needless hot stuff
we know that's not going to happen. Epawants all ice. Engines to be dead. To many bureaucrat s think of black smoke rolling trucks when they think of desiels.. never mind in m8d 90s tgey were classed as low emission vehicles. I perfect tuned oil burner does not blow black smoke. And delivers great return on btu. Water and mentanolworked in ww2 in radialengines and works today. No reason msnufacters have not gone this way vice the urea and scr
Thread Starter
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Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14,256
Likes: 2,182
Any guess at what exhaust temps at Dpf might be after the methanol injection?
930f is what I find to be minimum temp to have it hot enough for passive regen.
so if we can further drop combustion temps and still have designed power. We can got rid of the Dpf. And maybe trim scr.
just saying from engineering .. get rid of this needless hot stuff
we know that's not going to happen. Epawants all ice. Engines to be dead. To many bureaucrat s think of black smoke rolling trucks when they think of desiels.. never mind in m8d 90s tgey were classed as low emission vehicles. I perfect tuned oil burner does not blow black smoke. And delivers great return on btu. Water and mentanolworked in ww2 in radialengines and works today. No reason msnufacters have not gone this way vice the urea and scr
930f is what I find to be minimum temp to have it hot enough for passive regen.
so if we can further drop combustion temps and still have designed power. We can got rid of the Dpf. And maybe trim scr.
just saying from engineering .. get rid of this needless hot stuff
we know that's not going to happen. Epawants all ice. Engines to be dead. To many bureaucrat s think of black smoke rolling trucks when they think of desiels.. never mind in m8d 90s tgey were classed as low emission vehicles. I perfect tuned oil burner does not blow black smoke. And delivers great return on btu. Water and mentanolworked in ww2 in radialengines and works today. No reason msnufacters have not gone this way vice the urea and scr
the cleaner burn is as a result of the fuel value of the meth, and the denser air from the vaporization cooling effect.
you also get steam cleaning effect.
about regens….these systems have a start at X boost setting and a second setting for max water/meth flow rate….so say start spraying at 2psi and max flow spray at 40psi boost. So this winds up on a curve.
I’m not sure at what can nditiins I would have 900 degrees exhuast temps…towing going up hill?
operator commanded regens are at about 630f, so hopefully if I tow hill and start passenger ng corvettes at exceed 630F , what little soot in the exhuast system should burn off.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 750
From: Texas
6.7 I have no personal readings on pre turbo egt temps. My 7 .3 and 6.0 easily would surpass 1500 f under hard acceleration. Momentarily. That's why it was so easdy to burn through pistons if you didn't back off when running tuners. Now we have steel pistons,
but the ceramic dpf, needs more heat to burn off the 1 or 2 micron spot. I could not find what Ford has for temps, but 600 seemed low, although. My infared grill self cleans at 650. 🤣
600 to 700 would be easy to achieve under normal load. We loose around 200 from exhaust pre turbo to post. .
Steam clean is a good side affect .
yes blowing past lesser vehicles makes it all worth it. At least it did back in the day.
out of the box 6.7 runs Laps around my old 7.3 or 6.0 on a tuner
but the ceramic dpf, needs more heat to burn off the 1 or 2 micron spot. I could not find what Ford has for temps, but 600 seemed low, although. My infared grill self cleans at 650. 🤣
600 to 700 would be easy to achieve under normal load. We loose around 200 from exhaust pre turbo to post. .
Steam clean is a good side affect .
yes blowing past lesser vehicles makes it all worth it. At least it did back in the day.
out of the box 6.7 runs Laps around my old 7.3 or 6.0 on a tuner
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,835
Likes: 9,156
From: Western NY
Any guess at what exhaust temps at Dpf might be after the methanol injection?
930f is what I find to be minimum temp to have it hot enough for passive regen.
so if we can further drop combustion temps and still have designed power. We can got rid of the Dpf. And maybe trim scr.
just saying from engineering .. get rid of this needless hot stuff
we know that's not going to happen. Epawants all ice. Engines to be dead. To many bureaucrat s think of black smoke rolling trucks when they think of desiels.. never mind in m8d 90s tgey were classed as low emission vehicles. I perfect tuned oil burner does not blow black smoke. And delivers great return on btu. Water and mentanolworked in ww2 in radialengines and works today. No reason msnufacters have not gone this way vice the urea and scr
930f is what I find to be minimum temp to have it hot enough for passive regen.
so if we can further drop combustion temps and still have designed power. We can got rid of the Dpf. And maybe trim scr.
just saying from engineering .. get rid of this needless hot stuff
we know that's not going to happen. Epawants all ice. Engines to be dead. To many bureaucrat s think of black smoke rolling trucks when they think of desiels.. never mind in m8d 90s tgey were classed as low emission vehicles. I perfect tuned oil burner does not blow black smoke. And delivers great return on btu. Water and mentanolworked in ww2 in radialengines and works today. No reason msnufacters have not gone this way vice the urea and scr
You bring up a couple of great points. One is you don't need to blow black smoke to make power. That's just overfueling and wasting money for a road driven vehicle like a pickup truck. I remember reading that we used methanol injection on airplane engines in WW2.
As to manufacturers not going this way, while I wouldn't mind filling up a tank for the injection system, Ford would look at as an additional cost but that would be one way to easily reduce emissions for future EPA regulations and make more power to boot. Plus you have guys complaining about using DEF, let alone having to buy and add another fluid to the truck.
It would be great to see a factory tuned methanol injection system with a huge tank from the factory.
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,835
Likes: 9,156
From: Western NY
6.7 I have no personal readings on pre turbo egt temps. My 7 .3 and 6.0 easily would surpass 1500 f under hard acceleration. Momentarily. That's why it was so easdy to burn through pistons if you didn't back off when running tuners. Now we have steel pistons,
but the ceramic dpf, needs more heat to burn off the 1 or 2 micron spot. I could not find what Ford has for temps, but 600 seemed low, although. My infared grill self cleans at 650. 🤣
600 to 700 would be easy to achieve under normal load. We loose around 200 from exhaust pre turbo to post. .
Steam clean is a good side affect .
yes blowing past lesser vehicles makes it all worth it. At least it did back in the day.
out of the box 6.7 runs Laps around my old 7.3 or 6.0 on a tuner
but the ceramic dpf, needs more heat to burn off the 1 or 2 micron spot. I could not find what Ford has for temps, but 600 seemed low, although. My infared grill self cleans at 650. 🤣
600 to 700 would be easy to achieve under normal load. We loose around 200 from exhaust pre turbo to post. .
Steam clean is a good side affect .
yes blowing past lesser vehicles makes it all worth it. At least it did back in the day.
out of the box 6.7 runs Laps around my old 7.3 or 6.0 on a tuner