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1999 F250 7.3 4x4 Auto Crew Cab (manual shift trans case, manual locking hubs)
Put the truck in 4x4 over the weekend while xmas tree shopping just to get out of a farm. As soon as I was out of my hole, I put it back in 2hi and unlocked the hubs. The passenger hub seemed a bit harder to turn than the driver's side. While driving I realized the truck felt like one of the hubs was maybe stuck, almost like it had to push a little harder to get going. While braking, the wheel has a medium jerk left right when you hit the brakes and then it lightens up. I figure I'll pull the hubs and lube them up as I haven't done that since I bought it 6 months ago. This is where I started having some questions.
The passenger hub was dry as a fart, driver side was lubed decently, but it seemed a lot more liquid like oil rather than axle grease. I figured that could basically cause all of my problems that I had so I'm going to lube them. While I had them off the truck, I remembered I've been annoyed by a bit of a popping noise when going over bumps, all other front end components except one tie rod are new. So I jerk the axle shaft around on both sides and notice play, a little more on the driver's side. QUESTION 1) How much play should I have? Seems to me like I should have next to none if the needle bearings the shafts rest on in the hub are okay. Obviously the play is taken out when the hub goes back in, but it still seems like a bit much to me.
When I looked into the empty hub assembly after I took out the locking portion, there is a C clip, a washer behind it, and behind that what appears to be a 6 sided axle nut. Both "axle nuts" are loose and can be spun easily by hand. I tried spinning them inwards like you would tighten a nut and neither of them got any tighter. Passenger side was easier to turn than driver's side, but probably because the assembly was dry unlike the driver's side which has some residual lube. QUESTION 2) Is this nut supposed to be loose like that? Everything is apparently currently being held on by the C clip locking ring.
Once I looked at the top of the removed locking portion, I noticed that the one from the passenger side looks like it has rubber shavings on it, like an o-ring or something disintegrated. Inside of the now empty hub assembly also had some, but not much. Both hubs have the outer O-ring still in tact so its not rubber from that. I'm not aware of any other rubber parts inside the hub. Based on stamped dates the hubs are original to the truck. Based on the yellow grease marks on the end of each axle shaft, the axles are likely original as well. Check out the picture and let me know what you think. Maybe it's just dried up old lube?
If your axle is loose in the steering knuckle I would pull the hub assembly off and look at the needle bearings. The hexagon nut you are referring to is just a thrust washer and it is held in by the snap ring, so it should spin freely, there is actually three of them 2 metal and one plastic.
Thrust washer, copy that. That makes me feel a whole lot better already. I saw in a youtube video that the needle bearings that the axles ride on go bad fairly often, so I'm guessing I have that issue. When I grab the axle stub inside the empty hub and wiggle it, I can watch the outer axle Ujoints move around back behind the knuckle, so I'm guessing thats definitely too much play? Thoughts on putting it back together as is, with hubs greased, until spring when I have more time to get it proper downtime?
Also, check your ujoints, the steering wheel sensation you felt sounds like dry ujoints with a hub that didn’t unlock.
The Ujoints are fairly new from the PO, like I said he replaced damn near every serviceable component in the front suspension except the passenger outer tie rod which I'll probably complete here soon. I'll have to see if they have grease zerks or not. Thanks for the idea, that's one I wouldn't have necessarily thought of.
Without the hubs being on the outer axle shaft will wobble. The hubs are what keeps them centered.
Edit : the hubs (hub lockers) are fairly easy to disassemble and clean and lube. I changed to manual locking hubs but did disassemble and service my autos a couple times.
I realize the shaft won't stay perfectly still, but the hub isn't the only thing that keeps the shaft centered, there's a needle bearing which I believe should eliminate a good amount of the play if its functioning correctly. With the amount of play I have, and the popping noise I've been chasing, I think my needle bearing is going. I'm going to lightly grease the hubs and put them back in for a couple months until I have the time to tear into it a little further whne it warms up and my summer toy can come out to play.
I realize the shaft won't stay perfectly still, but the hub isn't the only thing that keeps the shaft centered, there's a needle bearing which I believe should eliminate a good amount of the play if its functioning correctly. With the amount of play I have, and the popping noise I've been chasing, I think my needle bearing is going. I'm going to lightly grease the hubs and put them back in for a couple months until I have the time to tear into it a little further whne it warms up and my summer toy can come out to play.
Your needle bearings may in fact need replacing or at minimum remove and clean and grease them. But the needle bearings have nothing to do with movement of the axle shaft. It is held in place and centered solely by the outer hub locks. When you remove the hubs the outer axle shaft will wobble.
The needle bearings have a lot to do with axle shaft movement the axle stub rides on that needle bearing, and if the bearing is bad the axle shaft will move back and forth with the hub installed, which will eventually destroy the hub, I learned that the hard way.
Yeah they definitely don't seem very difficult to replace, watched a quick youtube video on it and it seems like I'm already halfway there. I just had my first kid and got a major promotion (by major I mean way more work with a little more pay) at work in the span of 2 months, so my head is spinning and I just flat don't have the time during the day to get it done. I realize that means I'll probably do a little more damage to the axles in the meanwhile if the needle bearings really are bad, but if that's all its going to be then I guess I'm just willing to risk it.
Your needle bearings may in fact need replacing or at minimum remove and clean and grease them. But the needle bearings have nothing to do with movement of the axle shaft. It is held in place and centered solely by the outer hub locks. When you remove the hubs the outer axle shaft will wobble.
Originally Posted by 00t444e
The needle bearings have a lot to do with axle shaft movement the axle stub rides on that needle bearing, and if the bearing is bad the axle shaft will move back and forth with the hub installed, which will eventually destroy the hub, I learned that the hard way.
Anyone else care to chime in on this debate?! Two completely different answers. I tend to think of it more like 00t444e... if the bearings didn't have anything to do with axle centering/movement, then why would they be there in the first place?
I miss spoke a little. Yes the needle bearings support the axle shaft. I was referring to the movement that you were referencing. And without the hubs being on the axle shaft will have some movement.
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