Can someone help me understand the implications of the 10,000/9,900 GVWR Package in NYS? My wife and I are looking at a decent sized 5th wheel and the 10,000/9,900 GVWR Package and Heavy Tow Package are mutually exclusive (for good reason). I am just curious if anyone who has or does live in NYS has looked into the rules governing the vehicle's, registration, etc... and understands the pros and cons?

 

Registering the vehicle at a lower weight rating saves on the bi-annual registration fee. You can look the charts up on the NY DMV site. It is not a huge savings but everything does add up these days. If you are looking at the heavy tow package you must be shopping for an F250 which is in itself max rated at 10,000 lbs. If you are looking at a large 5th wheel rig you probably should be looking at an F350 although other than registered weight an F250 can be built almost up to an F350. Sit down with a decent dealer and review your options after you learn your trailer weight and anticipated pin weight. The RV dealers will quite often tell you anything to get you into an RV and quite often people spend a lot of time and money trying to get their truck up to standards to haul the weight of the trailer purchased. The less you spend on a truck the more the RV dealer can put in his pocket. HD trucks are not that much more expensive, in the long run. The journey is much more pleasant in an adequately built vehicle. A little extra truck is luxury. A less than adequate truck can be agonizing at every turn, so to speak.

I also feel 4wd is somewhat important unless all of your campgrounds are improved roads and sites. I have watched and pulled large rigs out of seemingly easy sites after a rain. And overflow camping is always in the middle of a soft field. Plus, depending on the part of NY you are from, winter is always a challenge in a 2wd. Well, not last winter.

There have been a couple of posts about registered weights and police and weights and measures. Some are more in tune with weights and registrations than used to be. With an RV chances are you could register at any point and never have a problem. But a keen officer with commercial experience could look at your registration for whatever reason (minor violation, involved in an accident or routine inspection etc) and see that the numbers don't add up to legal. Since it is technically a form of tax evasion to purposely claim a lighter weight registration than the vehicles intended use the moral side of me says not to try to cheat a few dollars when your total investment is soaring around $100K. Plus you'll feel better if you ever do have a situation involving an officer of the law.

 

Rob,

Thanks for the thorough reply. The 250 vs 350 conversation came down to my insurer (Amica) and their drawing of the line between the 250 being registered as a personal vehicle vs 350 on their side being considered commercial.

In reading 2017 Super Duty Truck | Towing Specs | Ford.com I thought the weight could be as high as 18,000 LBS on the 5th wheel. I have a call into my dealer now.

Any other "gotchas" with the 350 in NYS? CDL?

 

Not that I know of at this time. The saving grace in NY is the exemption for a recreational vehicle. Although do not hold my word as gospel, there are new regulations being written in this government mandated state every 42 seconds. The personal vehicle may be only an insurance deal. A truck must be registered as commercial over 7000 pounds.

Yes the reg is 18,000 MGW or above for the tow vehicle. You won't reach that level. Trailer cannot be over 10,000 pounds without a CDL except for recreational vehicles. Of course we all know a load of dirt in a twelve foot dump trailer at 10,200lbs is much more dangerous on the highway than a 36 foot 30,000 lb rv trailer standing 13'6" tall. The RV's are just like driving a Prius.

 

Sorry for all of the questions but this is very helpful. Some of the 5th wheels my wife was looking at were around 15,000 - 16,000 lbs. If I read that correctly it would be exempted under the recreational vehicle exception or a CDL would still be required in that case? My order is still in process in ETIS and my dealer is seeing what changes he can make. It is a $75K truck I plan on keeping for a long time so I want to get it right

 

Keep in mind that payload (the amount the truck is allowed to carry) is a function of the GVWR. Consider a truck weighing 8,000lbs. That truck can legally carry 2,000lbs. with a 10,000GVWR, or 3,500lbs. with the standard 11,500GVWR.


This is important because the tongue weight of the trailer will be part of the payload. Take a 5th wheel with a 2,500lb. tongue weight - the 10,000GVWR truck can't legally tow that trailer, whereas the 11,500GVWR truck can. You will find lots of people arguing that this is irrelevant because it's the same truck despite the different GVWRs. While that may be true, law enforcement officers are checking these things more and more often.

 

Okay so my dealer was able to cancel my order placed a month ago (Ford rep was not overly pleased) and my new order will be going in Monday morning (same Ford rep was not too thrilled about the priority request either.

Now the question becomes, if cost was no object (it is, but let us ignore that part for a minute):

I will own this truck for at least the next 7-8 years.
We are starting to shop for a 5th wheel which will become our little vacation home.
I live in Western NY and everything that it comes with.
I will be towing that 5th wheel probably 10-15 times (weekends mostly) a year for the foreseeable future.

All of that said, should I go DRW (F350 or even F450) or stick with the 11,500 default on the F350 SRW?

 

If you are going for a 5th wheel that is 15k-16k you absolutely must get a dually. You will be within a tankful of water of being overweight.

 

Depending on the vehicle. If the trailer is 16,000 pounds the pin weight should be around 2400-2800 pounds. That would leave at a minimum of 900 pounds which could be added directly to the pin weight. I would err on the side of a little over in this case and go with a SRW. The truck can handle it.

 

You may also want to discuss this with Karl4cat (Rodney). He has one of the best handles on the weight and tow capabilities.

 

What a bunch on nonsense...

OP, as to your weights, you will be well within the rated weights of a SRW 350 with most 15-16k 5vers. You're going to have around 3k (+/- a couple hundred #'s) worth of payload available for loaded pin weight after you fuel up, put your hitch in, and are ready to travel. 3k is pretty generous and you should be able to find plenty of 5vers that are 15-16k loaded with at or under that weight. The GCWR of a SRW 350 is 28700# so you won't come near that. So, the key is not finding one of the few 5vers in your range that have super heavy pin weights. It's all about axle placement and weights very widely. For example, I never wanted a DRW so I shopped my brand of toy haulers that has it's axles slightly forward when compared to the competition. And, while I'm over on GCWR on my current 2012, I am under on all my other weights. GVWR, GAWR, and tire ratings. For my 2017, I will be under my GCWR too. So, I'll be at or under all ratings with my garage and 150 gallon fresh tanks full with the RV coming in around 19.5k.

 

Thanks for saying that Rob. You're a hard sell and if I have your respect, that's saying something...

 

Thank you again for everyone's help.

The last question for both of you if you are willing to share your wisdom...

I was originally ordering a short bed on the F250 knowing that I would have to deal with a sliding hitch for the 5th wheel. I was doing this primarily for garage reasons and if I do a bit of rearranging in our garage (remove some shelves I built), I can make the long bed fit with 10" to spare.

All that said, would you consider the short bed knowing what I am looking to get and how often I plan on pulling it?

 

I have a short bed and my next one will be a short bed as well. I don't run a slider hitch and have never found one necessary. Yes, you can have truck to trailer contact if you aren't paying attention in very sharp turns. You can also have truck to tree contact if you're not paying attention. My solution is to pay attention. That said, if you want it foolproof, I would skip the slider and get a Reese Sidewinder pinbox which will allow you to go a full 90 degrees. And, it's automatic. Most sliders are manual and easy to forget. They often never get used for this reason. There are two auto sliders from Pullrite and Demco but they are very pricey and the Sidewinder pinbox is a much better value.

As to ordering a 250 instead of a SRW 350, if you do, make sure you get the HD tow package as well as the camper pkg with it. That will ensure that is is physically the same as a SRW 350 but just derated on paper to save you $. Alternately you could just order a SRW 350 with the 10k GVWR de-rate pkg. It changes nothing physically but will get you the lower on paper rating you're after.

 

It will be a F350 at this point as the F250 order was cancelled successfully yesterday. A couple of things:

1) I don't seem to be able to add the camper package to any vehicle in the Build/Price unless it is a DRW, including the F250. Does that make sense?

2) The only option I do not have selected in the F350 build is the Heavy Service Front Suspension. I do have the plow prep package. From what I can find it looks like the Heavy Service Front Suspension would be 1-up > than the Plow Prep springs. I would think this would make it even more difficult to get close to level when loaded in the rear, correct? Any reason to get them otherwise?