1986 F350 460 engine stopped
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 36
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From: Olathe, KS
1986 F350 460 engine stopped
Hi, I've been around a while, but mostly I just lurk, listen and learn.
My problem: I started my truck the other day, and it idled real low for about 3 to 5 seconds, and then it just stopped. Starter won't turn it over, and a socket on the crank wouldn't turn it either way.
So, I figure something inside the engine has come loose. There are no new oil leaks or holes on the outside. Should I assume that the engine needs to come out to take apart and see what's wrong? In my mind I am seeing the worst case scenario, but my budget for this kind of thing is very small at the moment.
Thoughts? Things I should look for?
Thanks
My problem: I started my truck the other day, and it idled real low for about 3 to 5 seconds, and then it just stopped. Starter won't turn it over, and a socket on the crank wouldn't turn it either way.
So, I figure something inside the engine has come loose. There are no new oil leaks or holes on the outside. Should I assume that the engine needs to come out to take apart and see what's wrong? In my mind I am seeing the worst case scenario, but my budget for this kind of thing is very small at the moment.
Thoughts? Things I should look for?
Thanks
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,984
Likes: 2,738
From: Virginia
Does the starter make a thumping noise? If it doesn't, it may be caught in the flywheel. You could take the inspection cover off underneath and see if the starter is stuck in the flywheel, or take the starter off. Just to make sure it's not stuck and has the engine bound up.
I would then loosen the belts, just to make sure something is not locked up and keeping you from turning the engine.
I would then loosen the belts, just to make sure something is not locked up and keeping you from turning the engine.
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Olathe, KS
I took your suggestion and removed the starter, then I removed the a/c, the power steering pump, and the alternator. (The smog pump was still there, but a previous owner kindly removed the belt already). Still won't turn.
How challenging is it to pull this engine without removing the radiator support or the transmission? (Also, if I leave the transmission in there, can I leave it attached to the crossmember or will it have to move to detach it from the engine?)
Thanks
How challenging is it to pull this engine without removing the radiator support or the transmission? (Also, if I leave the transmission in there, can I leave it attached to the crossmember or will it have to move to detach it from the engine?)
Thanks
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Olathe, KS
I'll give the hydrolock theory a try this evening if its not raining, though I would be surprised if that was the case. It was running before it stopped (It made a couple of revs in the few seconds), and it won't turn either direction at all from the crank pulley.
Even though I haven't gotten in to it yet, the lack of movement in either direction is what stumps my brain. I guess I'll find out soon enough though.
Even though I haven't gotten in to it yet, the lack of movement in either direction is what stumps my brain. I guess I'll find out soon enough though.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 143
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From: Lyman, SC
Lots easier to remove if you pull the radiator support. Once the applicable radiator, a/c, and trans lines are loose the support/rad/grille/etc will come out as a unit. It's just unplugging the lamps and removing the two support bolts and a handful of screws/bolts. I've pulled and installed one like that by myself.
Trans can stay in and is just a few bolts. You'll have to support it a the front. Going back together may be a little tedious though. I prefer to mate them outside the vehicle if I can but obviously doing it in the vehicle is most common.
Might want to pop of the timing chain cover and have a look at that.
Trans can stay in and is just a few bolts. You'll have to support it a the front. Going back together may be a little tedious though. I prefer to mate them outside the vehicle if I can but obviously doing it in the vehicle is most common.
Might want to pop of the timing chain cover and have a look at that.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: New Zealand
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Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
The engine can be pulled with the radiator support still in place. The key is to have one of those adjust slings on your hoist.
Get as much room as you can up front(radiator and some of the front accessories on the engine). You might have a problem getting to the bolts that hold the torque convertor to the flexplate. See if you can get these out, it's going to be difficult without being able to turn the engine.
If you get the torque convertor loose, lift the engine and the tranny up as far as they will go till they hit the floorboard/firewall. Then put a floor jack under the tranny, and jack up against the tranny to hold it in that position(up as high as it will go). With it in this position, you should be clear of the motor mounts somewhat, so wiggle the engine and pull it forward. If you need to tilt it up further in the front, use the tilter crank.
You will have to raise the engine really high to get it over the front of the truck, but it can be done, just be careful. I have done it with the truck sitting on a lift. As soon as it clears the front of the truck get the engine down, it's so easy for it to turn over when it's up high like that.
Get as much room as you can up front(radiator and some of the front accessories on the engine). You might have a problem getting to the bolts that hold the torque convertor to the flexplate. See if you can get these out, it's going to be difficult without being able to turn the engine.
If you get the torque convertor loose, lift the engine and the tranny up as far as they will go till they hit the floorboard/firewall. Then put a floor jack under the tranny, and jack up against the tranny to hold it in that position(up as high as it will go). With it in this position, you should be clear of the motor mounts somewhat, so wiggle the engine and pull it forward. If you need to tilt it up further in the front, use the tilter crank.
You will have to raise the engine really high to get it over the front of the truck, but it can be done, just be careful. I have done it with the truck sitting on a lift. As soon as it clears the front of the truck get the engine down, it's so easy for it to turn over when it's up high like that.
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 36
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From: Olathe, KS
If I can get the 2 big bolts out on the core support, I'll take that out. I've taken the rest of it loose except the oil cooler. I'm down to transmission, exhaust, and motor mounts (besides some connectors) left before I take it out. Where do you attach a chain to for lifting the engine? (not seeing any loops or hooks)
For being almost 30 years old, this truck must not have had a hard life. So far nothing has been rusted together, and there is almost no oil underneath it (except for the power steering fluid that came out when I moved the truck after it died.)
This truck actually has a 5 speed in it, so fortunately I don't have to worry about torque converter bolts. (That would've been a pain)
It only ran for about 5 seconds or so, so the engine was cold. I didn't notice anything about the oil pressure during that time, but it hasn't been a problem before....
Brock
For being almost 30 years old, this truck must not have had a hard life. So far nothing has been rusted together, and there is almost no oil underneath it (except for the power steering fluid that came out when I moved the truck after it died.)
This truck actually has a 5 speed in it, so fortunately I don't have to worry about torque converter bolts. (That would've been a pain)
It only ran for about 5 seconds or so, so the engine was cold. I didn't notice anything about the oil pressure during that time, but it hasn't been a problem before....
Brock
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 36
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From: Olathe, KS
I'm haven't worked on the internals of hardly any engines... the timing cover is the thing kinda behind the water pump and crank pulley, right?
I would assume that to take that off, I would need to remove the water pump and the crank pulley, and the balancer.
With about everything off the front of the engine, that shouldn't be too hard to remove.
I would assume that to take that off, I would need to remove the water pump and the crank pulley, and the balancer.
With about everything off the front of the engine, that shouldn't be too hard to remove.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
I'm haven't worked on the internals of hardly any engines... the timing cover is the thing kinda behind the water pump and crank pulley, right?
I would assume that to take that off, I would need to remove the water pump and the crank pulley, and the balancer.
With about everything off the front of the engine, that shouldn't be too hard to remove.
I would assume that to take that off, I would need to remove the water pump and the crank pulley, and the balancer.
With about everything off the front of the engine, that shouldn't be too hard to remove.
It's still best to have everything angled up toward the front, so even though you have a 5 speed, still pull everything up and put a jack under the tranny to hold it up against the floorboard.
You can put a chain around the exhaust manifolds or a bracket up front and the exhaust manifold in the rear. The only problem with this is as the chain gets tight, it will tend to get against the valve cover and can bend it. You can avoid this if you get a short piece of angle iron or something and lay between the valve cover and the chain to spread the load.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 143
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From: Lyman, SC
Yep, either that or it might've jumped and allowed the valves and pistons to kiss and bind together. The only engine I have ever not been able to turn by hand was a GM OHC V6 that jumped time like that. Everyone else was offering things to check before pulling the engine so I thought I was allowed to as well.
I know this is a stupid question but I've been tripped up by worse....since it's a manual you did verify it's in neutral by moving the truck a little by hand before attempting to rotate the crank?
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
All these older Ford engines are clearance engines. In other words, the valves cannot kiss the pistons if something like that happened. There are clearance and non-clearance engines.
I have heard of the timing chain binding things up though. Usually happens on a high mileage neglected engine.
I have heard of the timing chain binding things up though. Usually happens on a high mileage neglected engine.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,325
Likes: 14
From: Island Southeast Alaska
No one has asked or said as yet that I have seen as
to weather there was any oil in the engine when it seized.
And now, right now before you pull it maybe pull the oil
plug and see what comes out into a bucket. Any water?
Also have you pulled the plugs and tried to turn it yet?
I would make sure I knew why it locked up before I pulled
it or took anything more off.
Also conciser maybe the clutch has came apart and
is binding up. Prolly not the clutch or tranny but
again check it all and find the problem. Than you will
know for sure just what you have to pull down to
fix her.
But the way the engine slowed down and stopped
tells me it is most likely a rod or main bearing seized
on the crank. Again drain the oil pan. Any water? Any
metal particles or chunks? At this point the block is
prolly still good as is the top end. A new crank and
bearing may be all ya need for now. At the least.
I have seen when a timing chain has broke and jammed
the crank gear it can bend the crank. Or brake it off at the
gear.
to weather there was any oil in the engine when it seized.
And now, right now before you pull it maybe pull the oil
plug and see what comes out into a bucket. Any water?
Also have you pulled the plugs and tried to turn it yet?
I would make sure I knew why it locked up before I pulled
it or took anything more off.
Also conciser maybe the clutch has came apart and
is binding up. Prolly not the clutch or tranny but
again check it all and find the problem. Than you will
know for sure just what you have to pull down to
fix her.
But the way the engine slowed down and stopped
tells me it is most likely a rod or main bearing seized
on the crank. Again drain the oil pan. Any water? Any
metal particles or chunks? At this point the block is
prolly still good as is the top end. A new crank and
bearing may be all ya need for now. At the least.
I have seen when a timing chain has broke and jammed
the crank gear it can bend the crank. Or brake it off at the
gear.
