Tire shops and lug nuts
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
Tire shops and lug nuts
Had the tires replaced on my wife's Sienna last night and the tech never used a torque stick when he tightened the lugs with his impact wrench.
Pissed me off because I brought this to the manager's attention as he was doing it and he told me that it was normal. They have since agreed to replace all lug nuts and wheel studs.
Pissed me off because I brought this to the manager's attention as he was doing it and he told me that it was normal. They have since agreed to replace all lug nuts and wheel studs.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,529
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From: Kansas
I've owned four Aerostars and whenever I bought new tires, the "techs" would always use a jack on the lower body seam, even if I told them not to. It would always buckle the rocker panel and that's where rust would start. I finally just got an extra set of rims, brought them my rims, had them install the tires on the rims and would put the new tires on at home.
As far as the rotors warping, that happened to me also. While I do all the work on my vehicles, I had a sudden front wheel bearing failure on my Aerostar and I limped the vehicle to an Indy shop for repair. He put on a new rotor and bearings. Two weeks afterwards, my steering wheel shook during braking. I had to use a breaker bar to get the lug nuts loose. They were put on that tight. I turned the rotor and it was warped so bad that it's now close to the minimum thickness after getting trued. Some guys just don't have a clue.
As far as the rotors warping, that happened to me also. While I do all the work on my vehicles, I had a sudden front wheel bearing failure on my Aerostar and I limped the vehicle to an Indy shop for repair. He put on a new rotor and bearings. Two weeks afterwards, my steering wheel shook during braking. I had to use a breaker bar to get the lug nuts loose. They were put on that tight. I turned the rotor and it was warped so bad that it's now close to the minimum thickness after getting trued. Some guys just don't have a clue.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
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From: Running Springs CA
I use an impact wrench myself, but just to snug them up a little, takes practice. Then its the torque wrench for final tightening.
Since so many modern unit body cars are designed to be lifted at certain points on the rocker panel, they think all of them are. The Aerostar is BOF, right? So, they should be lifting on the frame or suspension, not the body.
Since so many modern unit body cars are designed to be lifted at certain points on the rocker panel, they think all of them are. The Aerostar is BOF, right? So, they should be lifting on the frame or suspension, not the body.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Colorado
I wouldn't worry about tire shops not using a torque wrench. I have never seen a single employee at any shop I have used have the training on how to use a t wrench properly any way. To qualify myself here, I will state I repaired, rebuilt, and calibrated torque wrenches for over 20 years.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,884
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From: Morgan Hill, CA
FWIW the guys in Nor Cal at Custom Alignment in Mtn View use torque wrenches on the lug nuts. Nice digital Snap On wrench.
Custom Alignment is one of the only, ok THE ONLY shop I will allow to work on my stuff. The owner and technicians are members of the Nor Cal Shelby Club and have nice track cars themselves and care about what you bring in. Not cheap, but they do have an AWESOME "Road Force" balancing machine for the tires...
Custom Alignment is one of the only, ok THE ONLY shop I will allow to work on my stuff. The owner and technicians are members of the Nor Cal Shelby Club and have nice track cars themselves and care about what you bring in. Not cheap, but they do have an AWESOME "Road Force" balancing machine for the tires...
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 531
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From: North Richland Hills, TX
Kauffmann Tire used torque wrenches, at least at the one I used to go to before they left Texas.
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From: Isanti, MN
I wouldn't worry about tire shops not using a torque wrench. I have never seen a single employee at any shop I have used have the training on how to use a t wrench properly any way. To qualify myself here, I will state I repaired, rebuilt, and calibrated torque wrenches for over 20 years.
I don't even care how they get to 76 ft-lbs as long as it's there. Or even within the realm of reason. But doubling the specified torque is negligent and dangerou IMHO.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Frequently frozen MN
I rotate my own tires (not as often as I should), and these days I ask brake and tire places to use a torque wrench. I hope that they do -- most of the places try to isolate the work area 'for your safety'.
I don't know if the torque sticks are that bad, but the online trade magazines claim that they're not that accurate. Still better than nothing.
There are guys here who have said that they take a torque wrench with them, and check things out in the parking lot before they leave. Might not be a bad plan - especially if you tell them that you'll be doing it.
Hard to believe that the bosses don't watch for that kind of stuff.
hj
I don't know if the torque sticks are that bad, but the online trade magazines claim that they're not that accurate. Still better than nothing.
There are guys here who have said that they take a torque wrench with them, and check things out in the parking lot before they leave. Might not be a bad plan - especially if you tell them that you'll be doing it.
Hard to believe that the bosses don't watch for that kind of stuff.
hj
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
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From: Running Springs CA
You are right that close is good enough in the case of wheel lugs, and torque sticks, if they pick the right one, are adequate.
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From: Isanti, MN
Leaving them significantly loose is actually worse. That is the usual reason for lug breakage, due to metal fatigue, and even loss of the wheel. Inadequate preload causes the threads cycle in and out of tension every revolution of the wheel. Automotive hardware is not that good, metallurgy and quality control, to start with.
I would have been happy with torque sticks, and I would have even been okay with ~100 ft-lbs on the lugs. But double the specified torque load is where I would question the integrity of the fasteners. Perhaps I'm overreacting, but my family rides around in that van.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
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From: Running Springs CA
If the metal didnt yield, there is not much to worry about. Engineers give parts like this generous safety margins. After loosening them, where you able to run the nuts off and on easily by hand? If so, they are ok.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,509
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From: St James, Missouri
FWIW the guys in Nor Cal at Custom Alignment in Mtn View use torque wrenches on the lug nuts. Nice digital Snap On wrench.
Custom Alignment is one of the only, ok THE ONLY shop I will allow to work on my stuff. The owner and technicians are members of the Nor Cal Shelby Club and have nice track cars themselves and care about what you bring in. Not cheap, but they do have an AWESOME "Road Force" balancing machine for the tires...
Custom Alignment is one of the only, ok THE ONLY shop I will allow to work on my stuff. The owner and technicians are members of the Nor Cal Shelby Club and have nice track cars themselves and care about what you bring in. Not cheap, but they do have an AWESOME "Road Force" balancing machine for the tires...