do 6.7s 'make oil' like the 6.4?
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Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2009
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From: Virginia beach, VA
do 6.7s 'make oil' like the 6.4?
I have heard that one of the causes for the 6.4 to have fuel in the oil is that the fuel slips past the rings during the regen process. Since the 6.7 also has a dpf does it suffer from an extra quart or so of oil (fuel) between every oil change? And if not what exactly did Ford do to prevent it this time around?
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Joined: Apr 2009
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22000 miles, 3 oil changes and no extra oil at change time...some here have had OA done with no reports of out of the normal amounts of oil dilution. Industry standard for fuel dilution in the oil is 7%. The highest reported that I have seen is 4%.
The regeneration events are much more infrequent and much shorter in duration than 6.4 events. This is due to DEF injection allowing less aggressive EGR activity. Less EGR equals less soot equals fewer DPF events. The 6.7 uses only one bank of cylinders for the regeneration event.
These events are about 10 minutes in length. If you miss the message flash on the info screen you will not know it is happening. I have seen mileage between events run between 250 miles and 800 miles depending on conditions.
DEF and DPF events are proving to be total non issues with Ford 6.7 owners.
Regards
The regeneration events are much more infrequent and much shorter in duration than 6.4 events. This is due to DEF injection allowing less aggressive EGR activity. Less EGR equals less soot equals fewer DPF events. The 6.7 uses only one bank of cylinders for the regeneration event.
These events are about 10 minutes in length. If you miss the message flash on the info screen you will not know it is happening. I have seen mileage between events run between 250 miles and 800 miles depending on conditions.
DEF and DPF events are proving to be total non issues with Ford 6.7 owners.
Regards
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,521
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From: Greenwood, SC
In 4 oil changes I have not had any issues with oil growth. My 6.4 I had did not make oil either though, I happen to use my truck is such a way that makes oil growth a non issue. I generally drive a few hundred miles each day, an average of just under 1000 miles/week.
The folks who use trucks for short trips, stop and go traffic, lots of idle or PTO use are generally the ones to watch out for.
As stated above, the regeneration strategy on the 6.7 is much less "intense" as it is on the 6.4. Less frequent, only 4 cylinders are used to pass fuel down the line as opposed to 8, and the EGR system is much less intrusive.
I am curious to know what the CFM is on the EGR system, and also am curious about the CFM on the intake and intercooler.
It's still early in the 6.7's life to know how things go. 6.4 owners did not report oil dilution here on FTE for quite some time, and it's not all that common but def. something to monitor for all of us.
The folks who use trucks for short trips, stop and go traffic, lots of idle or PTO use are generally the ones to watch out for.
As stated above, the regeneration strategy on the 6.7 is much less "intense" as it is on the 6.4. Less frequent, only 4 cylinders are used to pass fuel down the line as opposed to 8, and the EGR system is much less intrusive.
I am curious to know what the CFM is on the EGR system, and also am curious about the CFM on the intake and intercooler.
It's still early in the 6.7's life to know how things go. 6.4 owners did not report oil dilution here on FTE for quite some time, and it's not all that common but def. something to monitor for all of us.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
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I am of the opinion (not enough facts) that oil dilution is a peculiar thing with biodiesel.
The higher the bio content, the greater the problem because it does not boil off the lubricating oil like diesel does.
The "bad" cases are likely going to be found in a combination of very cold operating conditions, high (often beyond spec) bio content like B20 or B100, and,
operating conditions that dictate a lot of idling, short trips, etc.
I strongly suspect not many owners are knowingly putting their $60,000 truck on high bio content fuel.... especially in the colder climes.
That is probably the reason why reports are far fewer.
Plus the factors stated above... fewer regens, fewer EGR.. tighter cylinder / piston clearance specs, etc.
The higher the bio content, the greater the problem because it does not boil off the lubricating oil like diesel does.
The "bad" cases are likely going to be found in a combination of very cold operating conditions, high (often beyond spec) bio content like B20 or B100, and,
operating conditions that dictate a lot of idling, short trips, etc.
I strongly suspect not many owners are knowingly putting their $60,000 truck on high bio content fuel.... especially in the colder climes.
That is probably the reason why reports are far fewer.
Plus the factors stated above... fewer regens, fewer EGR.. tighter cylinder / piston clearance specs, etc.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
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Rick,
PC-11 motor oil is suppose to deal with oil dilution by biodiesel, but it is stalled.
I have this very bad feeling about what we don't know about biodiesel, recalling that your old 6.0 turbo failure was right after a tank of biodiesel blend.
One characteristic of biodiesel is generally it burns hotter, so esp. with reduced EGR (or EGR deletes), the higher combustion temp = higher EGT and more wear on the parts.
Too often, I saw cases where trouble arose right after someone put in a tank of high percentage biofuel.
e.g. b20 or higher.
I like my dino fuel.
PC-11 motor oil is suppose to deal with oil dilution by biodiesel, but it is stalled.
I have this very bad feeling about what we don't know about biodiesel, recalling that your old 6.0 turbo failure was right after a tank of biodiesel blend.
One characteristic of biodiesel is generally it burns hotter, so esp. with reduced EGR (or EGR deletes), the higher combustion temp = higher EGT and more wear on the parts.
Too often, I saw cases where trouble arose right after someone put in a tank of high percentage biofuel.
e.g. b20 or higher.
I like my dino fuel.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,158
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From: North of Salt Lake City
It was my analysis on the first oil change that showed 4%. My second analysis showed fuel content at 1.5%. I attribute the reduction in dilution due to the engine now being fully broken in.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,376
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From: Illinois
LOL,Your far from being fully broken in....I like seeing that your only at 1.5%.How many mile's were on that oil?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,600
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Heck if these motors are running as well later as they are currently, I plan on 100,000 miles being fully broken in so that way it will go at least 400,000.
I can dream...but who knows, 300,000 might just be realistic!
I can dream...but who knows, 300,000 might just be realistic!
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,158
Likes: 35
From: North of Salt Lake City
One might just make the argument that Ford has nailed the fuel dilution thing. Imagine that... their strategy of injecting only one side of the V and utilizing passive regeneration is clearly working. Now we can have clean tail pipes AND a minimal impact on mileage. I'm halfway tempted to take Paul's advice and let the truck tell me when to change the oil next time.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,376
Likes: 12
From: Illinois
[quote=EpicCowlick;10019376]Well, yeah, you're probably right. The truck has way to go to "fully" seat everything. [This oil change was at 10,500 miles and everything looked good especially the fuel dilution percentage.] I was relieved at that.
One might just make the argument that Ford has nailed the fuel dilution thing. Imagine that... their strategy of injecting only one side of the V and utilizing passive regeneration is clearly working. Now we can have clean tail pipes AND a minimal impact on mileage. I'm halfway tempted to take Paul's advice and let the truck tell me when to change the oil next time.[quote]
Thanks for the info!
One might just make the argument that Ford has nailed the fuel dilution thing. Imagine that... their strategy of injecting only one side of the V and utilizing passive regeneration is clearly working. Now we can have clean tail pipes AND a minimal impact on mileage. I'm halfway tempted to take Paul's advice and let the truck tell me when to change the oil next time.[quote]
Thanks for the info!
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