1997 - 2003 F150 1997-2003 F150, 1997-1999 F250LD, 7700 & 2004 F150 Heritage

Camshaft not getting oil

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #16  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:43 PM
phil6608's Avatar
phil6608
phil6608 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Stanton DE
Posts: 18,157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I had a valve spring break and this is what I found!
The long part of the valve was found in the exhaust header...lol



 
  #17  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:59 PM
bigwill1767's Avatar
bigwill1767
bigwill1767 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks Phil. I hope I dont find the mess like you did. I am hoping for something simple. I am not a mechanic but plan to learn to fix my own.I will get better pics this evening and repost. Have to get an inspection mirror this evening to try to see the valve, spring etc.
 
  #18  
Old 08-11-2010, 08:53 PM
bigwill1767's Avatar
bigwill1767
bigwill1767 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
PICS WHERE ROCKER ARM CAME OFF

Got more pics at photobucket linked below. It looks to me like everything is in place except this 1 rocker arm that came loose. I still have not found the screw that holds the rocker arm in place.
I bought Mobil 1 oil 5w20 and a mobil 1 oil filter today. I plan to clean the valve bank with a little diesel and a brush and remove all the debris out carefully then change the oil. I have read that the motorcraft oil and filter is best so if I can get the truck running again I will go ahead and change both again. Just using this Mobil 1 as a wash until I can get the motorcraft products. Also will drop the oil pan and check for debris and the strainer screen.
Questions
Can I use the oil pan gasket again?
Can I use the valve cover gasket again?
Suggestions as to what I should do next to proceed with repair would really be appreciated.

FORD TRUCK pictures by BigWill1767 - Photobucket
 
  #19  
Old 08-11-2010, 10:27 PM
70f100longbed's Avatar
70f100longbed
70f100longbed is offline
Fleet Mechanic
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Raleigh USA
Posts: 1,870
Received 14 Likes on 12 Posts
Looking at your pics I can say the head is trashed. Look at how dark the cam and cam caps are compared to the rest of the head. Those parts ran very hot from lack of lube. Also looking beside the caps at the cam I can see metal shavings sticking out. I bet if you take off the rear cap you will find a piece of oil filter clogging the oil passage. Also there are no screws holding the rockers in. The valvesprings do that.
 
  #20  
Old 08-12-2010, 07:56 AM
Johnny Langton's Avatar
Johnny Langton
Johnny Langton is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SE Texas
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
That head is junk. The camshaft bores in the cylinder head do not have a "bearing" insert-the cams ride on the machined aluminum "bore" for the camshaft. That head was starved for oil,and basically the camshaft "chewed" it's way into the cylinder head. That's why the follower popped off-there's not enough tension there to hold it in place against the valvespring and lash adjuster. Before you go on replacing the head-you need to know why it was starved for oil. What caused it,and how do you prevent it from happening again? I know it sucks,but just be glad it wasn't one of a pair of $2000 ported cylinder heads. Stock heads are cheap in comparison.
JL
 
  #21  
Old 08-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Nightmare97's Avatar
Nightmare97
Nightmare97 is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Johnny Langton
That head is junk. The camshaft bores in the cylinder head do not have a "bearing" insert-the cams ride on the machined aluminum "bore" for the camshaft. That head was starved for oil,and basically the camshaft "chewed" it's way into the cylinder head. That's why the follower popped off-there's not enough tension there to hold it in place against the valvespring and lash adjuster. Before you go on replacing the head-you need to know why it was starved for oil. What caused it,and how do you prevent it from happening again? I know it sucks,but just be glad it wasn't one of a pair of $2000 ported cylinder heads. Stock heads are cheap in comparison.
JL
I was just checking out the pictures myself, on one of them you can see a heavy shaving buildup. The whole engine is scrap metal, the crankshaft has to be wiped out.
 
  #22  
Old 08-12-2010, 04:28 PM
Nightmare97's Avatar
Nightmare97
Nightmare97 is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by phil6608
I had a valve spring break and this is what I found!
The long part of the valve was found in the exhaust header...lol



Hopefully the cyl wall is still ok, maybe you can salvage the block and get away with one piston.
 
  #23  
Old 08-12-2010, 07:40 PM
phil6608's Avatar
phil6608
phil6608 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Stanton DE
Posts: 18,157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Nightmare97
Hopefully the cyl wall is still ok, maybe you can salvage the block and get away with one piston.
Yeah, that would of been nice.
It was a built block with high HP so I had to rebuild it with all new pistons,bearings.Had to have the head redone too.
The worst part is the motor only had about 5000 miles on it!
The heads,cams and springs were new and a bran new Comp spring broke. That's what did the damage.

Oh yeah,,,,and NO help from CompCams for any of the rebuild!
 
  #24  
Old 08-12-2010, 07:55 PM
Johnny Langton's Avatar
Johnny Langton
Johnny Langton is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SE Texas
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Nightmare97
I was just checking out the pictures myself, on one of them you can see a heavy shaving buildup. The whole engine is scrap metal, the crankshaft has to be wiped out.
Probably not-the oil is filtered before the oil flow gets to the crankshaft.A couple of years ago, I tore apart a 4.6L (the one with the ported heads) that had a oiling issue, and it was FAR worse than that-the camshaft would rattle around in the bores,and the oil pump was full of debris,but none of it got past the filter. We replaced the bearings since that one sees 7000+ rpms regularly,but the crank was still perfect.
JL
 
  #25  
Old 08-12-2010, 08:52 PM
bigwill1767's Avatar
bigwill1767
bigwill1767 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks guys for all the input. I tried to be in denial and think I could just clean it up, replace the cam follower & lash adjuster and would be ok. This evening I discovered that 4 bolts on 2 camshaft caps were so loose I took them out with my fingers. The caps were scored so bad they are lined with metal shavings. Also where the camshaft mates up with the head is full of shavings.
I think at this point the whole motor is probably full of shavings and I would be better off to replace the motor. The head replacement is only about 400.00 from what I saw but I dont want to have problems later with the other side. Its obvious the head got very hot and little oil so other side may be in bad shape also. IDK.
I friend found a 98 4.6 that is in a wrecked Expedition for 750.00. Says the motor is not hurt. Asked me if mine is 6 or 8 bolt flywheel and IDK. From my VIN, 8th digit is 6 and 10th is W. From what I read this engine could be either 6 or 8 bolt flywheel.If I read correctly, it doesnt matter which bolt pattern but I may have to replace the plate from the transmission to engine in order for it to work.
 
  #26  
Old 08-12-2010, 09:06 PM
Nightmare97's Avatar
Nightmare97
Nightmare97 is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Johnny Langton
Probably not-the oil is filtered before the oil flow gets to the crankshaft.A couple of years ago, I tore apart a 4.6L (the one with the ported heads) that had a oiling issue, and it was FAR worse than that-the camshaft would rattle around in the bores,and the oil pump was full of debris,but none of it got past the filter. We replaced the bearings since that one sees 7000+ rpms regularly,but the crank was still perfect.
JL
I just tore one down that wasn't even close to as bad as that picture and the crank was wiped. The shavings still go through the engine.
 
  #27  
Old 08-12-2010, 09:15 PM
Nightmare97's Avatar
Nightmare97
Nightmare97 is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bigwill1767
Thanks guys for all the input. I tried to be in denial and think I could just clean it up, replace the cam follower & lash adjuster and would be ok. This evening I discovered that 4 bolts on 2 camshaft caps were so loose I took them out with my fingers. The caps were scored so bad they are lined with metal shavings. Also where the camshaft mates up with the head is full of shavings.
I think at this point the whole motor is probably full of shavings and I would be better off to replace the motor. The head replacement is only about 400.00 from what I saw but I dont want to have problems later with the other side. Its obvious the head got very hot and little oil so other side may be in bad shape also. IDK.
I friend found a 98 4.6 that is in a wrecked Expedition for 750.00. Says the motor is not hurt. Asked me if mine is 6 or 8 bolt flywheel and IDK. From my VIN, 8th digit is 6 and 10th is W. From what I read this engine could be either 6 or 8 bolt flywheel.If I read correctly, it doesnt matter which bolt pattern but I may have to replace the plate from the transmission to engine in order for it to work.
Smart move, I'm sure your engine's cooked. The 6 in the VIN makes it a Windsor and you're correct, it's either a six or an eight bolt crank, but odds are in your favor it's a six bolt.
 
  #28  
Old 08-13-2010, 08:01 AM
Johnny Langton's Avatar
Johnny Langton
Johnny Langton is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SE Texas
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Nightmare97
I just tore one down that wasn't even close to as bad as that picture and the crank was wiped. The shavings still go through the engine.
If the crank was damaged, then the crank was starved for oil. In this case, the cylinder head's oil restrictor is plugged with something, and has caused the damage in the head. Debris in the pan CANNOT get into the rod and main bearings unless it goes through the oil pump and filter first.
JL
 
  #29  
Old 08-13-2010, 09:07 AM
bigwill1767's Avatar
bigwill1767
bigwill1767 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hey Johnny.Do you think I should check the other side and if not damaged and getting oil just replace the 1 head?
 
  #30  
Old 08-13-2010, 10:42 AM
Johnny Langton's Avatar
Johnny Langton
Johnny Langton is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SE Texas
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by bigwill1767
Hey Johnny.Do you think I should check the other side and if not damaged and getting oil just replace the 1 head?
I would. just pull the cover and a couple of cam caps to see if they're in good condition. If they are,then I'd just swap the one head and run it some more. If the other head is good, there's no reason the main or rods bearings should be damaged-the heads are at the end of the oiling system.
JL
 


Quick Reply: Camshaft not getting oil



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:19 PM.