Ok, I have stripped the fenders and a door to the bare metal, I'm ready to cover the metal. I've heard terms like metal prep,Metal conditioner, etch primer, primer-surfacer, epoxy primer, etc. What the heck do I put on the bare metal?
I already purchased dupont metal conditioner (5717S) and Nason 491-17 etch primer with Nason 441-43 activator reducer. I used this per the paint store recomendation on a panel I picked up from E-Bay awhile back. I was told I sprayed it on too thick.
Here's a pic with it on the truck:
I want to cover these fenders before they start to rust. I also want to be able to mount them on the truck and drive it before getting it painted. Any suggestions as to what stepsI need to do this?

 

Do what the metal prep tells you and then put a good light coat of etching primer on it and then use primer over the etching primer.

 

Looking good Krosati !!
A few words about products. Make sure to read the directions. Not the ones on the can. Many of these products have tech sheets that list the specs of the product e.g., what the product can be used under or over, how to apply it, flash time, adverse reactions to other products etc.. (maybe someone can put up a post on the location of tech sheets for various paint products). I know PPG has 2 metal conditioners (MC) and one can not be used over sandblaster metal. Also, keep in mind MC needs to be applied using a wipe on wipe off method. If I remember, I think Duponts is wipe on and wipe off with clean water, and wipe again with a dry cloth. I always use compresses air to dry the panel to remove standing water. As for the primer (etch primer-EP) most dont need to be applied so that you hide the sheet metal. With any paint (save a mist coat) you need to apply a medium wet coat. This is for adhesion purposes. This is especially important if it is the first coat (groung coat) you are applying. Usually EP doesnt have much tint so it will seem as though you dont have enough on. Next stage would be primer surfacer (PS). I should make a note here by saying that by calling this a stage it is NOT seperate from the EP stage. You should always be using a wet on wet technique. After EP is applied you allow this to flash off then apply your PS. The application of EP and PS should be taking place one after the other. Again, this is for adhesion purposes. Doing this allows the EP to cross link with the PS during the curing process. I assume you will be block sanding till the cows come home so as a starting point I would apply 2 good coats of PS on the sheet metal and 3 on the body work areas. I dont know if you are driving this while working on it but I was never crazy about having the vehicles come in contact with road grime during this process. The sooner you top coat this the better. Note: in looking at your pic I see you are working panel by panel, good. You can top coat the panels as you go. I dont know how much you want to spend but a top coat done in a polyurethane using accelerated hardener and reducer will allow the panels to flash off really, really quick - like in 5-10 minutes. This is great because it will reduce the amount of dust.

 

I forgot to ask Krosati, was that a 2 beer or 5 beer job, LOL!!

 

Krosati, nice job !
just a few words

Try not to mix brands of products this is where problems start
If using Dupont paint use their complete line
or ppg or any brands don't mix.

for bare metal that I wasn't going to paint right away I use wipe on wipe off metal conditioner
then use a self etch primer that is topcoatable with an expoxy 2 part primer surfacer .
This keeps the moisture from getting through your primer to your work !
make sure the expoxy primer is a sandable primer for later though not a chemical bond type
This can be over kill but keeps from spoiling your work if not painted right away!

I was using ppg products !
again please use all precautions with chemicals and dust from these paints !

Rich

 

Nason and DuPont are from teh same line, nason is just ALOT cheaper, but tinted from the same line Just different labels on the can.

Pint of Dupont paint B/C : 35.00
Pint of Nason FulBase B/C: 13.95

Id go with nason too, and usually do.

I think that I will reserve my comments about brand mixxing, that is a hornets nest that I donot wish to distrub. =)

 

I hear you about the product mixing. I usually avoided mixing and stayed with one line. But some lines didnt have a particular product that worked as well as someone else, hence the mixing. I did use Glasurit at one time but was very unhappy with the clear. So I used Diamont by RM. Amazing clear at the time. We got away with no problems but, if there should happen to be a problem we were warned by the paint rep that we would void any warranty. I use all PPG now but dont like the primer surfacer compared to Glasurit (sands like butter).

 

Cid what did you not like about Glasurit? We use that paint at my shop. I like it. We use PPG at a guys house that I help build street rods with but after using Glasurit I think its better than PPG. Also Diamont i beleive is a cheaper line of Glasurit along with R-M unless Diamont and R-M is the same. Limco is cheaper too.

 

Hi Ultra Blue

I used Glasurit and was always happy with it. It was just the clear. Now this goes back some time. Back when they had the 54 line out (base). Im not sure that line exists? Anyway, I have since used Glasurit and was very happy with it. I think Glasurit has to be up there at the top in terms of quality. I have a really good price on PPG and am really happy with the reps so I tend to stay with them. I think your right about RM and Glasurit ownership.

 

Ok, so assuming I am to stick with the Nason brand, After stripping the panels, I need to wipe on, wipe off conditioner. mix the etch primer, apply a light coat, let flash and spray primer surfacer. Let dry, block sand, build, block sand, etc.

Now, I want to finish all of the body work, mount and align the panels, remove all panels, paint backside of fenders, inside cab, etc. Then reinstall everything and spray outside of truck all at once to ensure color matching and texture. How do I protect the panels, an epoxy primer surfacer?

 

The system you want to use is good. You are cleaning the metal and applying an adhesion promotor for the primer surfacer (PS). Just a note about the etch primer (EP). Any tech sheet I've read refers to it as an adhesion promotor and not a rust inhibitor. Maybe some one else can speak to this too? For this reason, if you can swing it, I would use epoxy primer in place of the EP. I did a complete on my truck using the following system:

metal conditioner PPG
epoxy primer PPG-DP48
primer surfacer PPG-K38

Everything was put on wet on wet ie, one after the other. I have a few rock chips and can hold a pressure washer to them and not worry about paint coming off in sheets.

Epoxy primer is marketed as a corrosion inhibitor and adhesion promotor. It is an excellent barrier to prevent moisture from reaching body work and steel. This added benefit will protect the shell from moisture in the air (and from wet sanding) as you sand the primer surfacer. Epoxy is expensive (approx $340 CND) but the foundation is what everything sits on. Keep in mind that the only reason you are painting the truck is to prevent it from rusting.

 

The bodywork guys I talked to & the autopaint store guys recommended the following since I brought it down to the metal:

Ospho
Etching Primer - PPG (don't know the #'s off hand)
Epoxy Primer - PPG (don't know the #'s off hand)
High-Build Primer - PPG (don't know the #'s off hand)
Epoxy Primer
then the BC/CC

I sure hope that this is the way to go cause I'm too far into it now to change it and I sure don't want to re-sandblast.

 

I hope ya'lls epoxy primer is different than what we use, sure sucks to sand =) not sure the purpose of Epoxy ontop of Primer/Surfacer thou.

 

I checked out Duponts website and found some info on the Nason product. Both the etch primer 491-17 and the epoxy primer 491-16 are detailed as " good for adhesion and corrosion resistance to properly treated metal. May be used over steel, aluminum, fiberglass, and sanded finish coats."
My question now is: What is the sealer used for between the PS and the BC? I thought the epoxy primer was for sealing?
I tell you what, I thought painting was pretty easy but I have to apprecite the pros now. You almost have to be a chemical enginner to know this stuff!

 

Krostati, you can paint over Primer Surfacer. Sand to 500 or 600 grit apply adhesion promoter (dupOnt 222s) and goto to town paintin =)