I'm trying to get an '82 F150 running and need some info - please! The truck hasn't been driven in ~2 years, and would only run for a short time when I bought it. Since the fuel filter was plugged and the gas smelled awful I assumed the problem was fuel and replaced the filter, rebuilt the carb and drained/refilled the gas. But, now that the fuel side of the equation is correct it has no spark.

According to the emission control info it has DS III and EEC III. However, the 2150 carb that is on it has no solenoid, no dash pot, no emissions controls whatsoever. In fact, there are remnants of OE emissions controls laying all over the place.

My plan was to get it running with the existing components and then evaluate the need to go to DS II - hence the previous post re test cable. However, reading everything I can on this site suggests that it may never run correctly w/o going back to DS II since many of the inputs and controls are/may be gone. Is that probable?

I've ordered the Chilton book on engine controls, but it won't be here for some time, so could someone enlighten me as to what inputs/controls the system is supposed to have and what the effect would be if they are gone? The truck is 100 miles from me so I can't easily check what's on it.

Tnx,
Gary

 

What size engine is it?

DS-III, EEC-III is quite frankly a really awful ignition and engine management system, in my opinion.

I'd highly recommend going the DS-II swap. Parts are more readily avaliable as well. Most of the DS-III components are long since obsolete, except for perhaps the ignition module, and CP sensor.

 

Sounds like someone replaced the original "feedback" carburetor with a conventional carburetor. That is a big no-no on any computerized engine! When I took possession of my own 1985 Lariat, it was in the same condition yours was in, except mine had the EEC-IV/TFI ignition. The engine computer was still there, but the carburetor was switched out without any thought on the other components that relied on the "feedback" carburetor my truck originally came with.

I hate to tell you this, but both the Haynes and Chilton's manuals I have do not even touch on the Duraspark III ignition system. Duraspark II and EEC-IV/TFI is covered, but there is nothing when it comes to explaining and diagnosing the system you have.

Most people don't understand that the engine computers during these years not only controlled air/fuel mixtures, but also ignition timing and emissions. You can't replace any of these vital inputs without affecting all the rest! Your timing is probably locked, emissions are probably high, and performance and economy suffers when any part of the system is compromised. That is why the Duraspark II conversion is so popular. I converted mine a few years ago and my truck runs MUCH better! That is probably what you are going to have to do to get your truck running right again.

If you have emission testing in your area, you are going to have to put your current system back together somehow. That means finding an expensive "feedback" carb, and hooking back up all engine sensors and emissions components. If you do not have inspections, a much simpler solution would be what 81-F-150-Explorer suggested, and that's the Duraspark II conversion. Unless the harnesses are the same, you'll have to get the Duraspark II wire harness from a junkyard, but all the other components are readily available at any parts house.

I am not too familiar with the DS-III, EEC-III system. I am curious as to what makes it so awful?

 

Guys,
Thanks for the responses. You are confirming my fear that I have essentially no way forward but to go to DS II. Fortunately Oklahoma doesn't have emissions tests, nor vehicle tests of any kind for that matter, so I can do that.

As I think about it, the only reason to troubleshoot it where it sits, which is 100 miles from my shop, is with the hope that something simple like a connection or a ground is bad. Or, maybe that the coil is bad since it is the only ignition component that will stay when I do the conversion - which I really want to do in the shop.

So, if you've done the conversion, please tell me about the distributor. I've read about some of them being shorter than the DS III unit - is that an issue. And, if I'm going to the salvage for the module and maybe the wiring harness, what's the best distributor?

And, speaking of harness, it looks to me that all I'd really have to do is run 3 wires to the dizzy as I already have the one to the coil. Right?


Gary

 

You need the proper distributor to fit your engine. They all seem to fit, even if they are shorter or longer(you must have a 302?).

The dist will already have two plugs with it along with the wiring.

You can get any DSII module from any type engine, multiple years(late 70's to mid 80's) even from a car. The only thing you need to look for is that it has blue plastic where the wires go into the module. There are yellow, and green ones, etc. but you want a blue one. The module will already have wires with plugs on it. It should plug right in to the DSII distributor you bought, no wiring hassles there.

If you look at where your DSIII module plugged into the harness, you might find one of the plugs will fit your DSII module. One wire will be hot with the key in run and the other wire will be hot during cranking. It may plug right in with no wiring needed at all. And your right, you should not have to disturb your coil wiring.

Your biggest hassle will be noting which cylinder the DSIII rotor was pointing to before you take it out, and getting the DSII dist rotor to point exactly the same when you install it. You can do it this way as long as you do not turn the engine after you take the DSIII dist out.

 

Welcome to FTE. I am also in Ok, not far from you (Sapulpa).

As Franklin says, you need to make sure the DS2 dist fits the engine size. Which engine does it have?

 

Sorry, the engine is a 351W. So, any DS II dizzy for a 351W will fit, but wouldn't I want to get one from a pickup so the mechanical and vacuum advance is sorta right?

As for which cylinder it is pointing towards, I see the problem since this one fires from alternating sides.

Sapulpa! My mother was from there, as were her 9 brothers/sisters - the Rose clan. Lived on "the hill", up where Garfield school was. Back in the Depression. Spent many a day there.

 

Once you get in there and put a different carb on it, and start modifying this and changing that, the distributor timing curve is out of wack anyway, no matter where it came from. That's why people have so much trouble sometimes after they change something on the engine. They want to follow the "book" as far as timing settings and all that goes out the window as soon as you get away from stock. So you will have to work with it a little bit no matter if it comes from a car or a truck.

 

Well, thanks to all the input I realized that the truck is never gonna run right until I convert to DS II. So, I bit the bullet and tomorrow I'm picking up a rebuilt dist, one intended for the truck with the original advance curves in it. And, I'm also getting a new module and coil.

With a lot of calling around I finally found a dist and module at a salvage, but they wanted $65 for them - probably well used and with no guarantee. From the parts store they have a life-time warranty.

But, I'm not getting the wiring harness, so will create my own. It appears that the power connector, the one with the red & white wires, will plug into the existing harness. For the other connector I'll create my own cable, starting with the existing green wire to the coil and adding 3 more to the dist. Anyone know how long they should be?

Gary

 

If you want to save a little money and give yourself some time to collect the DS2 parts and harness check out this link.

Dirt cheap Ignition

Jim

 

NEW 351W FORD WINDSOR HEI DISTRIBUTOR PC6003: eBay Motors (item 110556460086 end time Jul-14-10 06:46:06 PDT)

 

It was Ford's first attempt at a totally computer controlled timing and advance system.

The DS-III is very simular to the DS-II except for three vital things.

The DS-II has a magnetic Pickup, the DS-III does not.
The DS-II has Centrifugal and vacuum advance, and the DS-III does not.
The DS-II does not rely on an extra computer where the DS-III relys on the EEC-III to function. The EEC-III and Crank Position sensor takes the place of the magnetic pickup.
The Distributor in a DS-III is empty with only a rotor and cap., Nothing else.

Instead of the magnetic Pickup in the distributor like the DS-II, the DS-III simulates this function using presets from the EEC-III computer, and the Crank Position sensor. Timing advance is all done with the EEC-III, and various sensors, telling the DS-III when to fire etc... Since all the various sensors for wide open throttle, closed throttle, cruise, crank position etc... is so vital for proper timing advance, and function, very tedious adjustments need to be made. Even the distributor has to be adjusted in a tedious maner or huge timing errors can result. The DS-III, EEC-III makes the EEC-IV, TFI-IV look like points and condenser type igniton in simplicity, IMO.


What makes this system worse is the fact there are no real support for replacement parts. If one of the parts is bad, good luck finding it, unless it's the module or CP sensor. If just one of the vital engine sensors or the components is malfunctioning, the EEC-III will operate in limp home mode, and all timing advance, fuel mixture, etc... will be guestimated by the computer, resulting in a very poor running "gas hog".

 

If you create your own harness, I can't see anyway to do it but cut the factory connector off the distributor(as far as I can tell it comes with it installed)
Cutting the factory connector off would be ok, but not the best way if you could avoid it. Later on if you or someone else needs to pull the dist or do some other mechanical work, it sure is nice to unplug the factory connector and not have to worry about wiring.

 

I appreciate the suggestions on how to save money. I really considered the HEI approach, having found the same unit on ebay, but expect to sell this truck when I inherit my father's '81 F150 4x4, and want it to be easily maintained by others. Given that, I'm going to stay Ford.

However, I went to the parts store this morn to get all the kit and the adapter fit the dist very poorly - the clips didn't snap in as they were too long. They are ordering a slightly different one, but do any of you have any knowledge about this?

As for the harness, I'm making one using 3/16" quick disconnects. Yes, there will be 4 separate wires on the module end and 3 on the dist end, but I'll wrap the Ford connector with tape and run it down the wires to ensure they don't get disconnected. So, I'll be able to remove either the module or the distributor. And, once I get the truck in my shop I may be able to find the right harness or at least the Ford connectors to make a better one.

 

One more question: What's the initial lead supposed to be? The Motor's manual I have shows 3 different ones (10, 12, & 14) for different calibration codes. I realize that if it pings I have too much. And since the computer was to control the EGR and it's inputs have been taken away I may or may not have EGR, will will effect pinging. But, where should I start???