hello,
My current engine is a 400, and will be swapped for a 460 in a few months, but i have a heating problem to solve now.
I have a 400, and it's equipped wit a aluminum radiator with 2 electric fan's.
Now, the last few months its getting hotter and hotter here, as does the engine.
I already had some "check engine" lights lit at 210 degrees.
Now, the local shop here claimed not to be a great fan of aluminum radiators, and stated that copper cools better.
So, i dropped in the old 2-row (1.5 year old) copper radiator.

What i also changed, is the rearend. It was a 2.75:1 normal differential, and currently it is a 3.25 trac-loc.

As water cools better as cooling fluid, i poured water in the system when installing the copper radiator.

I made a small testdrive, and temperature rises to approx. 240 degrees!!!


i figured, when having slightly more RPM's due the shorter ratio, the pump spins faster, thus cools better.
Also the drag on the engine is lighter, giving less to work for, thus less heat??

Wrong or right?


i'm a bit out of options, and i go on vacation on a 3000 miles trip within 5 days from now...

The local shop claimed the thermostat might be too restricted of flow. i would have to put a race type unit in it...

I'm thinking of removing it completely for the vacation...

Also: timing is a tad too advanced. Could this generate heat also? I thought only late timing did?
When it's good hot, it has trouble starting it.

On LPG i gave it 12 deg. initial advance, and a mechanical of 22 deg. at 2400 rpm, making total 34, plus vac. advance.


Does anyone have a good advice left for me?

 

I wouldn't attempt to take this on a vacation unless it's in known-good operational order.

Is it getting to these temperatures *while moving forward?" The fan does useful work only
while sitting still.

I would be hesitant to remove the thermostat altogether, that's not a permanent fix for
anything and it'd take longer for the engine to warm up. BUT you could remove the
thermostat and tun it without one as a test; put the thermostat in a pot of water on the
stove and see if it opens up.

Is your water pump actually pumping? Start the engine cold and remove the radiator cap;
as it warms up and the thermostat opens, you should be able to see coolant flowing
through the tubes.

Using just water as a coolant is a bad idea, that encourages rust inside the engine.

What device or method are you using to tell you the engine is, in fact, getting to these
temperatures? Is this method known to be good and your readings reliable?

Burning more fuel at a higher RPM == more heat.

 

FlowKooler
The site above will have the correct thermostat for your 400 engine. I quit trying to get them from the local autoparts, they try to give the one for a 351w.
Lots of things could cause over heating for instance, not having a fan shroud, poor fan clutch, poor water pump, or a blockage in the water jacket and radiator. I don't know why your local shop would tell you that a copper radiator is better than aluminum, if it was, the racing people would not be using aluminum. I put an aluminum radiator in my truck, it has two, one inch rows and flows much better than the old copper rads.

 

Copper IS a better conductor. Thermal Conductivity of Metals Almost TWICE as good, but it is heavier and much more expensive.

As Ctubutis said if it is overheating while moving you either have a blockage in the block or heads, or a bad water pump.

My bet is on a bad water pump impeller if you have been running it without antifreeze.

 

thanks for all the replies, but there's some misunderstanding here and there.

I ALways used good cooling fluid. Now, when swapping the radiators, i poured in water, just to see if it indeed cools better, and it can't hurt anything. (besides rusting the block inside, which will be non existent for the 3 weeks vacation...)
I HAD the 2x one inch aluminum radiator, and i swapped this out for the copper one, as the shop stated that it cools better then the aluminum one. (i was also told that aluminum purely was used for the weight, not better cooling..)

I do have a fanshroud, in fact, it's a plastic one where my fan's are mounted on. It's from a Audi S8, and pulls a heck of air. I can stick a paper in front of my grill, and there's also the A/C/ radiator inbetween...

Waterpump is a high-flow, it has double impellers, but from start i wasn't impressed by its flow...
It DOES flow actually, it can be seen when the radiator cap is off.
When thermostat is full open, it squirts the upper rows water to the side in the tank.

The indicator's are double.
There's the check engine light, and there's an additional autometer electric temp. gauge. When the gauge reads 215F, the check engine light begins to light up.



Now, there's one thing i just discovered:

A year and half ago, i had my heads off, and put them on again while not having a proper torque wrench. (i know, i know, my bad.. ).

Today i pulled the driver side valve cover, pulled the rockers, and checked head bolt torque.
As stated in "How to rebuild ford V8 engines", the torque should be around 130 LB/ft.
Now, having a good torque wrench, i pulled them at that torque, and i was able to turn every bolt approx. a half turn tighter before reaching torque.


Can this also be one of the possibility's?

Thanks.

 

Could be.
But I'd think you'd see evidence of overpressure if the head gaskets were leaking.

 

well, the last few months it uses a little cooling fluid.
I always figured it would be vaporised or overflowed or something like that, as i never saw any white smoke, or other signs of fluid leakage.

I did however always had a "wet" engine from the oil, and changed maybe a thousand things, but never could completely got rid of it.
I have to put a liter of oil (approx. a quart i guess?) of oil every 4-5 months in it. Might be one of the problems i solved as a side effect..
Could also be the 1.5 year old, but totally shot cork valvecover gasket

 

Info on rads

An Aluminum or Copper Radiator for Your Car - Car Craft Magazine

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/rad2.htm

 

A good read, thanks!!

 

Type in RT139 into the search feature of this site.There are quite a few discussions about thermostats for this engine series.This engine uses a unique thermostat.When it opens it blocks the internal bypass of the coolant flow in the engine,and directs it to full flow through the radiator.What condition are the hoses in?Is the A/C condenser free of dirt or debris in the fins?This can and will cause air flow problems to the radiator core.Are the fans on a thermostat,and are they working as they should?Let us know what you discover,or need more help with.

 

hi,

thanks for the reply.

i also opened a post on the BBF forum, see: I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 3

Over there i also posted pics of the thermostat.
I have the 333-180 thermostat, i pulled it and tested in water, works as it should.
The fan's are now programmed to run from 50 degrees, so constant.
Swapped the copper radiator in
From yesterday on i'm busy with the heating engine, and first thing i did, was cleaning the A/C radiator, and the engine radiator.
First with compressed air, after that with brake cleaner and compressed air, after that a good garden hose wash, so they must be clean

To skip through to the end of the story: i pulled the electric fan's out, and put the stock shroud back on with the mech. fan, and it actually runs coolre.
The only weird problem i have now, is when the engine reaches a high temp (did a little 90Mph to check, and it went to 205F and stayed there.), it will not go down in temp. anymore.
After the little 90Mph i did 55 again, and had it idle in front of my house also, but the temp. stayed at 205 F.
I don't understand why this is...?

Tomorrow i will swap the aluminum radiator back in, as the overall opinion still is that the aluminum cools better then the copper.

we'll see.

For constant comparisation, i made a same 10 mili drive after every hange i made, and noted the differences, see the link.
It actually is quite nice for future references i guess.

Thanks for any advice so far.
Anyone have a good comment on the temp. that stays at 205F.?

can it be the rattling valvetrain at that temp, not 100% opening the valves, thus staying hot?
That's all that comes to my mind, maybe someone can chime in there?

Thanks!.

 

Have you tried a different gauge and/or sending unit?

 

no, i haven't, becouse i have a good feeling it's quite accurate.
When it reads 180F, theres a small sippage of flow in the radiator to be seen.
When it reads 185, you can see the flow from the tubes.
At 190, you can see the water squirting from the tubes.
i think this is correct with an 180 deg. thermostat, so that's why i figure the meter is allright.
Also, when it reads 215, the check engine light goes on, wich is correct according the manual..

But, thanks for thinking with me there, i appreciate it.

 

I don't know if this is, in any way, related, but do you have a cool-air intake hose running to your air filter housing?

On my truck, the inlet duct was still mounted down by the right-end of the grill so, I attached a piece of dryer vent hose (ghetto, I know, but it's held up remarkably well, considering) between that duct and the air filter housing inlet.

For some reason, the engine started running cooler after I did that. I can only assume that, by sucking in the heated air from the engine compartment, it was causing the engine temp to be higher.

Might help, might not... Just a thought...

 

Are you sure you didn't install one or both head gaskets backwards?