I've read through the stickied GP thread, but not sure if my starting problem is the same as others mentioned. I have an 89 E350, a former ambulance. It is not driven very often, I use it for occasional towing or home depot runs. Due to starting issues, I'm afraid to take it anywhere, and it hasn't been driven in a year now.

I think I've had two problems, one, was obviously a dead GP or more. Typical WTS heat cycle and then on/off clicking. Replaced all GP with the proper Motocraft. Fixed the on/off clicking, but wonder if it lead to the second issue.

Now, the truck won't start without a lot of cranking. Typically, my start process goes like this:

WTS Heat plugs for about 8 seconds, crank crank crank. Stop, wait a bit, heat plugs, crank crank crank. Stop, heat plugs, crank crank *shudder* (almost ignites). Stop, heat, crank crank *shudder* *shudder* crank. Stop, heat, crank, crank, BROOOMMMMMMM. Now we're running.

Of course, all this cranking really drains the batteries, with little chance of a second start without recharging the batteries.

Just last week, with fully charged batteries, I tried something a little different after a suggestion that a cold engine should WTS longer than 10 seconds (though I don't know if that's a true suggestion). Turned key on, WTS for 8 seconds. Turned off ignition, and immediately turned on again. WTS for 8 seconds. Repeat one more time. Still got the shudder shudder almost start thing. Did a few more cycles of just heating, and it turned right over.

While I mentioned that the truck isn't driven or even started very often, this problem occurs even if the truck's been driven, not necessarily completely cold.

Any thoughts?

 

sounds like air intrusion.do the lines between the injectors appear wet? or do you have leaking fuel anywhere?

 

"Did a few more cycles of just heating, and it turned right over."

disagree, he ran several cycles of gp's and it fired right up, i bet he has a loose wire on the GP relay or isnt getting proper power to the gp's. Either way, the problem exists in his power to the plugs. I vote check voltage at all the plugs, you will need two people. One to turn the key on for a second while you check the voltage, just ground the negative side of a volt meter and put the positive inside the glow plug wire connector. should be getting near 12. If you arent seeing voltage on some of the connectors, you have a bad harness, if nothing at all or half strength, check the ground of the GP controller, gp relay. Try again. If it is still bad, check the power supply. When you turn the key to on, the rear two posts, one small(back right) and one large(back left) should be 12V. If no, then check the power supply cable from the batts. If that is good, then loosen and clean/retighten all the connections on the gp controller/relay. if all that fails or some fails, repost and we shall continue.

 

You replaced the Glow Plugs and disturbed the Return system, it is now allowing Air to enter the system...

You need to install a Injector Installation Kit.

Many, Including me prefer to toss the o-rings in the kit and use these Viton Return O-Rings - McMaster-Carr Item 9464K24, Viton is impervious to Diesel.

For the Injector Installation Kit installation You can follow Starmilts Humorous Fuel Return Replacement Procedure, I like to cut the 6 pieces between the Injectors to 4-1/16", Use a sharp razor blade to cut the hose and Vaseline to lubricate the o-rings.

For proper fuel system bleeding you can use steps 1 through 4 and 13 through 15 of the Fuel Filter Replacement.

To prove this, let it set over night (or all day), then pull the fuel filter, is the fuel filter completely full ... If not do the Injector Installation kit!

-Enjoy
fh : )_~

 

Interesting... I was thinking it could be fuel related. I was actually thinking it might just be old fuel causing my problems (it is two years old now, treated with stanadyne). The issue seems like it won't ignite. If there's an air leak, then, obviously, there's no fuel to ignite.

When I did get it started last week, I drove it into my drive, and there was a very obvious slightly oily but low viscous drip all the way up the drive. Almost like an AC drip in the summer (if the AC worked in this thing). The back of my head was saying fuel.

I don't know about on a pick up, but on the van there's hardly any room to get at the fuel filter. When changing the GPs we had to remove it, and spilled a bunch of fuel. I'm not sure I could remove it without spilling to prove there's an air leak.

However, if I were to try bleeding it, if there's no air leak, I should immediately get fuel instead of air, right?

For $35, and seemingly little difficulty (though this is a van), sounds like something to try.

 

On mine you don't need to actually remove the filter, I just loosen it a bit and fuel will leak around the gasket if it is full with no air in it. The only time I have seen them leave a diesel trail is when the return lines are leaking very bad and it runs off the vlley pan when moved. I have only had them to leak this bad on rigs that were parked a year or more.

 

Is the lift pump leaking ???
Is your oil level increasing ???

Yes, You can try bleeding it at the filter head, if you get any air, you have an air leak, likely in the return system.

However like starmilt stated, you really don't need to pull the filter completely.

-Enjoy
fh : )_~

 

you say you "fixed the on-off clicking"
what do you mean by that??
the glow plugs are supposed to cycle on-off for a while after the wait to start light goes out to keep the plugs hot and get the engine running.
also, 8 seconds WTS light sounds low. my 88 WTS is more in the 14-18 second range when cold. 8 seconds is a 60-70º glow cycle.


when you try to start it, will it fire and then die, then need to crank forever to restart, or is it just a crank forever??

if it fires for a second then dies, your glow plugs are working and you have a return line leak letting the fuel filter drain back to the fuel tank. if it just cranks forever, the glow plugs are not working.

to test the glow plugs, plug the block heater in overnight and see it it starts up next morning.
if it starts, it is a glow plug problem. if it don't start, it is a fuel problem.

 

If your glow plugs are holding a steady 'on' instead of clicking, you risk a very good chance of burning them all out, and in doing so, possibly swelling a tip and making them difficult, or even almost impossible, to remove.

 

I fixed the on/off cycling (clicking) by replacing all of the glow plugs with Motocrafts. Prior to replacing the GPs, it would WTS for about 8 seconds, then cycle the plugs very quickly about 5 times.

With the GPs changed, now it's just a steady on for the 8 seconds. I believe this is normal, other than it sounds a little short? I'm not certain that they do an afterglow. It's an ambulance, so it has an amp meter. After WTS, the amp draw goes back to normal.

As far as starting, it just cranks and cranks and cranks, once going, it usually runs. I say usually, because last week, when it started, it ran for about 2 seconds and died. It took another two WTS cycles to get it going again. That's never happened before, but I attributed the stall to its first firing in a year.

I don't believe it has a block heater. Though, there is an AC plug behind the front grill that's actually plugged into something under the hood. Have never figured out what it is, but it's an old ambulance, it has tons of wires that go no where. Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject.

Just a reminder in all of your helpful diagnosis, that this problem seems to occur even if it's just been run. For instance, it was in the shop for new tires last year. Tech drives it out of the shop bay and shuts it down. I pay, and then struggle to get it started again.

No idea on the lift pump (or where it is). Oil level increasing? I don't think so, but it's only checked if it's been sitting a while. Are you suspecting fuel in the oil that it would increase? It does leak oil, every once in a while I have to top it off.

Thank you guys!