Hey Cheezit, I have a question for you. I am just new to the diesel world as the 6.4 is my first diesel engine i have ever owned yet so far it has been a great engine with no issues what so ever, and yet you say it is a money pit??? can you explain your comment.

I have a number of friends ready to the 6.0. and those that have the 7.3 have nothing really negative to say about them. I have owned my truck just over 3 years now with just over 30k miles on it

 

I see what breaks and what the cost in relation to the damage is. As well as the level of people with enugh skills to perform a repair and diag.
I do understand there are lots of happy 6.4l owners. Also with a lot of miles logged.
With the cost of a $1000 to replace a radiator alone, thats not counting t-stats or front covers. Egr cooler failers are common enugh I that I can now do a set in about 4 hours.
Fuel system failers at a cost of $12,000, I can now have a high pressure fuel pump off in less then 3 hours.
a good example is Ford will at this time decline warranty repairs for fuel that has more then 500ppm of water. So I had to ask what is 500ppm of water really equal. 1/3 tea spoon per a gallon... or a full tank would be about 3 tablespoons
Ill would rather take my lumps with a 6.0.

I hope the 6.7 works out well. But when they fail and as with all things that are mechanical they will, the lumps will be even bigger.

if you have more questions feel free to ask.

 

Wow you really have enlightened me as to some cost the owner may one day have to face. Are you a mech at a dealership cheezit.

 

Sorry but im am not a Mech. I am a technican for a Ford dealer.
If you want to know what the differance is its the ability to repair things diag complex issie and about $10-$15 more an hour.



for some reason the term Mech or mechainic seems rather derogatory to me. It conjures the image of a the uneducated high school dropout grease monkey from 1950. That day has long past for most(sadly not all) people in the repair industry.

 

I think the other direction, Cheezit. I believe the "mechanic" is the guy that can keep diagnosing when the power goes off in the garage.

 

Vloney
How do you feel about the 6.4? Same as Cheezit or do you have a different take?
I've had all the coolant issues but had them fixed now. Will they come back again within 50K more miles or less ? or will I be good to go for a long time?

thanks

 

Personally, I'd rather have a 6.0. Structurally, they are the same engine, just different emissions hardware. Other than radiators, the emissions "hangons" is the biggest headache for the 6.4.

 

I Have not seen the failures you guys are having with the 6.4s. I work for navistar so the egr system and rad system are alot different in a bus or 4300 series.So therefore i havent had to change front covers or anything like that yet. Maxx7 has a single egr cooler and 1 turbo too. So far in the 4 years in service they have been pretty good when compared to a vt365. Thats just my opionion though. I do like 7.3s though. Good strong engine with very few issues. Most of the buses around here have gone there whole 8 years in warrenty without a single engine issue. Then you have the 365 which we have a least 3 a week in for multiple issue or worn out camshafts/tappets.

 

funny because we dont really see worn cams at all. Ive seen a few with the neddles from the roller come apart and wast the engine.

 

Thats happen too with the ones i worked on. Seems like i get engines alot that have number 8 exhaust or number 6 intake worn out. The hardning on the cam wears off then wears the cam out. I have seen in on the vt275 some too. The 6.4 hasnt had that issue yet hopefully it wont.Just melted pistons from the tips blowing off. Had one one time break the needle in the nozzle blow the holes out in the end the inj some big i could stick a needle in them. I just didnt like how it ran off like it did last week not something i like to have happen

 

Buses are ran wide open all the time too so thats probably why we see different issues in the stuff we work on.

 

So basically the main problems with the 6.4 powerstoke is the emissions garbage that Ford has put on it? Since the Maxxforce 7 has different emissions equipment. Is the higher stock tune also to blame? Ford's tune is a little higher Navistar's.

Powerstoke8994,

You're not the first Navistar tech i've heard that stated that the 6.4 is a good engine that is right up there close to the 7.3 in realiablity if properly maintained. Even though the 6.4 itself is a little more complex than the 7.3.

Cheezit,

It seems to me that the main problem you have with the 6.4 is the fact that Ford is choosing not to stand behind it when you have more that 3 tablespoons of water inside an entire tank of fuel. Am I incorrect?

 

theres some things different with the navastar enigine then with fords version. One big one is the programing. that has a lot to with it.
I dont know what the flowrate of the water pump is for them but ours I want to say is about 120gpm. that in of it self is causing issues with front covers, radiator, and t-stats.
the fuel issue is the same for cummins as well there pump doesnt like water any more then fords. go to dodge with out proof of filter maintance and see wht it buys you. Ford to date from what I have seen does a good job of standing behind there product. some may not feel its fair but hey I cant change that. I have to date not seen ford step up to the plate when all maintance has been done. Its also not ford fault that there is water in the fuel, they did not put it there.
Now the 6.7 has the same type of pump but with a few improvments. They are using a roller insted of a flat tapet and have relocated the pcv and vcv and they can be serviced seperatly.
My issues with the 6.4 go beyond that though. I have never replaced so many short blocks, replaced so many rods and pistons either.
I will give and say they are a nice looking truck that has lots of power. But they have very costly issues.
then lets look at how many people can really work on the engine in this truck at home? The 7.3 and the 6.0 are a walk in the park for home repairs.
I dont mind working on the 6.4 at all and have found more tricks to it then alot of people. For me they will continue to be a money maker for some time.

 

Cheezit- The maxx7 has the same flow rate water pump as the PSD. I also agree with you totally on tricks with the 6.4/maxx7 too. Im the only one there who likes working on them. I can get stuff done on them in half the time others take to do it but your probably flat rate too so you try to work fast as possible, im hourly so sometimes i take my time. The 6.0/vt365 is also a good tricks motor too i can get a cooler done in about a hour and half now. I do dislike working on the 7.3 the most but still the only navistar engine ill own. The 7.3 seems like a domino affect engine. One thing goes wrong then ten other things do when i do work on them. You actually get to change rods and bottom end stuff? They normally send a new service engine for that with us or a CAT reman long long if its a vt365. Is your dealer a medium duty dealer too?

 

I get stuck with a few f650/750 a year. I hate them with a passion. Im also isb/isx/isl certified but my new shop doesnt know that... a good thing. Ya its very cost effective to hang a rod and piston. I make a few more hours and parts makes more because as a dealer we can only charge $750 for handling fees of an engine. So total cost is less parts,service and me all make more.