Hey all,

I have a pretty serious problem. The other night, while backing up my 1997 F-250 H.D. (old body style--see signature), I backed up, slowly, as I attempted to get away from he curb. However, I totally forgot about the new storm drain (surrounded by an 8" high curb) the City put in, which was by my front tire. The R.F. tire hit this curb/drain, but it was not a big impact.

I was slipping the clutch, at idle, and could not having been moving more than 1.5 mph. I suspect I was going only 1 mph! I believe I had the wheels turned slightly to the left. I got out, thinking I had hit the rear tire. I did not realize the front tire had hit anything at all yet.

I drove down a potholed city street at only 15-20mph, and found the truck wandering, and very hard to keep straight. I also heard the power steering pump straining, when I attempted to keep the truck straight.

I stopped at a gas station, where I could see, and I noticed a fairly heavy rub mark on the R.F. tire, about 2/3 of the way around it. It was not so heavy that it actually abraided or cut the tire in any way, however--it was just a heavy rub mark.

In driving a total distance of less than a mile, however, I found that the truck was almost uncontrollable--it seems to want to head left or right, but not straight. When I attempt to hold it straight, it takes a lot of effort, EVEN AT ONLY 7 MPH!

When looking at the truck straight on, nothing appears to be amiss. There is no visible tow out or in, nor has the camber changed (to my eye). I find no rag joint in the steering column, and I don't see anything obviously bent.

My impression is that the truck feels like the steering is loose, in that it seems to want to cut left or right. Yet when you wiggle the wheel (engine running) there is zero play in the steering. The truck only has 123k on it, and has been well maintained. Prior to this, it drove PERFECTLY--up until two days BEFORE this happened.

I did notice, however, just two days before hitting the curb, that the truck was CLIMBING THE CROWN on a heavily crowned city street, at approx. 30 mph. (Vehicles in proper alignment should fall away from the crown, not turn themselves into it, as their naturally tendency is to be pushed down the slope of the crown, not up it.) This leads me to believe that perhaps the problem is something that was brewing BEFORE I hit the curb, and that the curbstrike only exacerbated it.

Does anyone have any similar experiences to share, so as to give me a direction to investigate, before I just had it over to a front end shop?

Does anyone have any theories as to what might be the problem?

Who things a 1-1.5mph impact, in reverse, with the wheels turned slightly, could possibly have caused this?

Any and all ideas/theories/experiences are most welcome--I'm walking at the moment! LOL

Thanks,

Big Six

 

Check the front axle u-joints, if one or both are froze up it will fight you trying to drive/steer it.

 

Dan,

Thank you for the prompt reply! Now, this may be a dumb question, but wouldn't frozen u-joints only affect the truck if the hubs were locked in? I have manual hubs and manual transfer case shifting, and I'm in 2x4 mode only right now.

But you give me a thought--nope--I just checked--I thought maybe kids had locked a hub in but no--they're both on "Free."

Thanks--still biting my nails. LOL

Big Six

 

this may be a dumb question, but wouldn't frozen u-joints only affect the truck if the hubs were locked in?

No, the u-joints must move freely in both axis to allow you to turn locked in or not.

A u joint can be free in one axis but froze in the other, rotated so the free side is working for you allowing you to turn unimpeded. However 1/4 rotation of that shaft and your screwed.

Seen it happen to trucks where the 4x is rarely if ever used, hubs should be locked once a month for 30 miles just to keep things freed up nice (no need to shift the TC into 4 wheel while doing so).

 

Dan,

Gotcha--thanks. I appreciate the explanation. I will keep that in mind as I continue to dig into this. I actually have been putting it into 4x4 fairly often--most recently in Februrary, but only very briefly. I did have it in 4x4 in Nov. and Dec., occaisionally, however, and in the 2 years I've owned it, it did get put into 4x4 fairly frequently. The previous owner plowed regularly with it, and he said he put it into 4x4 about once a month, for the reason you explained. Of course, he said a few things that turned out not to be true....

I will definitely post what I find, so you will know if you are right.

In the meantime--any other theories, anyone?

Big Six

 

Jack it up and orientate the u-joints so they must pivot in one axis first then turn so they act on the other, both of them attempting to turn the wheel. See if one or both of the joints in one or both axis prevents you from doing so.
You know what I mean, so they act like a "hinge". Set them one way and try it, 1/4 turn of the shaft and try again. You'll know in a few minutes if that's it or not.

Other points of interest would be the steering gear box itself or the ball joints. Might be a combination of more then one problem, several minor in nature but added together enough to fight you while driving down the road.

 

Dan,

Thank you for this! I don't have my shop manuals, or much time to deal with this, as I'm working out of town, so your straightforward test helps me get my head around this, potentially. Thank you for taking the time to lay it out for me!

Edit: I do know what you're saying, about how the U-joints have to act like a "hinge," but in two planes simultaneously. HOWEVER, I recall having driven someone's truck, briefly, that had binding U-joints, and the wheel tossed back and forth fairly quickly, and cyclicly. My truck, however, exhibited no rhythmic oscillation (for lack of a better word?) of the steering wheel, certainly nothing that felt like it was in synch with the wheels' RPM's. If it was binding U-joints, wouldn't the wheel having been tossing back and forth in time with wheel rotation?

As my time grows short before I need the truck, and I do not even have a driveway to work in (nor jack/jackstands, etc...) I may not be able to undertake this myself, but I at least feel better now, if I do have to explore this at a shop.

I will keep this thread updated.

To Dan or anyone else--I've been thinking about the steering box--can they "pack up" so quickly, going from driving perfectly to this mess, in just the distance of 20 miles, over two days? (Because it was climbing the road crowns just two days before it became undrivable....) I would have thought steering box failure would have been a more gradual process...?

Thanks again.

Big Six

 

Dan,

You may have hit it on the head! I was not able to jack it up (out of town/no driveway) but I tool it over to my friend's house, and while he wiggled the steering wheel, I watched the U-joints. They are definitely doing something funky, IMO.

When the wheels were not too far to one side, my friend, Rick, said "I can't turn it any further." I felt it--it sure felt like it didn't want to move further to the left. The BIG news is, when he was moving the steering wheel, I noticed that the U-joints were not moving in a linear fashion, when compared to the movements of the wheel. Rather, the U-joints would move a little, then stop, but then, all of the sudden, they would spin, either 90 or sometimes 180 degrees--quickly! Just like they were under tension (from being frozen, as you opined?).

When driving, it doesn't want to go straight ahead, and it will turn itself to either side. But in the driveway, it didn't mind straight ahead, but didn't want to turn both ways--by that I mean, if you could turn it left, you couldn't turn it more than, say, 20% to the right. If it was okay going right (when parked in driveway) it didn't want go more than 20% toward the left.

Are these behaviors consistent with frozen U-joints? I know I should have jacked it up, but even on the ground, I thought that the non-linear, quick spins that the U-joints were doing, when parked and in response the attempted steering inputs, was consistent with the U-joints being frozen. Do you agree?

IOW, if they were bound, and then forced to rotate slightly, by turning the steering wheel, it makes sense to me that they would resist that movement and then, when the turning force was too great to resist, that they would spin quickly the 90 or 180 degrees, until they were stopped by the frozen joint being forced to ariculate again.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Big Six

 

Are these behaviors consistent with frozen U-joints? I know I should have jacked it up, but even on the ground, I thought that the non-linear, quick spins that the U-joints were doing, when parked and in response the attempted steering inputs, was consistent with the U-joints being frozen. Do you agree?

IOW, if they were bound, and then forced to rotate slightly, by turning the steering wheel, it makes sense to me that they would resist that movement and then, when the turning force was too great to resist, that they would spin quickly the 90 or 180 degrees, until they were stopped by the frozen joint being forced to ariculate again.

Thoughts?

While I never watched any in action as you did it sounds reasonable they might react in that way when under force. Especially if one or both flip/rotate every time to the axis that can move somewhat more freely then the other allowing the wheels to be turned full lock either or both ways.

 

Dan,

You called it from your very first post! The left, front U-joint was frozen. I saw the joint with the frozen end cap removed, and there were NO NEEDLE BEARINGS left whatsoever! Just iron oxide dust. The tech said he had to use a torch just to get the end cap off.

$278. later, we were back on the road. However, now I feel/hear a repeating vibration at extra-legal highway speeds. I do not believe it was present, prior to this repair, but I couldn't swear to it, as I haven't driven the truck at higher speeds much at all, previously, for whatever reason.

So while my suspicion is that perhaps a problem is brewing, possibly with a bearing (the tech said none of the bearings needed replacing) I am happy to report that it now drives perfectly, just as before. (The vibration does not become evident until over 70mph, and is just faint enough for me to be uncertain about it's presences, pre-repair.)

Anyway, danr1, I just wanted to express my gratitude at your prompt, accurate analysis, and your continued patience, while bringing me up to speed on this type of failure/repair.

All the best!

Big Six