just did a 3g upgrade
#586
05-20-2018, 10:09 AM
That's awesome thanks! Posted on one of the Facebook groups last night asking for help and I've gotten nothing but "buy this" comments from a fabrication shop owner and hate for going junk yard parts. Even after I explained I CAN'T AFFORD all new parts for my truck, they're giving me grief for asking for help! Guess this is why I've stuck to the forums before now. I'm looking at Champion's discount eBay store for the radiator funnily enough. Think I'll be going that route and not buying from the guy on Facebook anymore...
#587
05-20-2018, 10:14 AM
That's awesome thanks! Posted on one of the Facebook groups last night asking for help and I've gotten nothing but "buy this" comments from a fabrication shop owner and hate for going junk yard parts. Even after I explained I CAN'T AFFORD all new parts for my truck, they're giving me grief for asking for help! Guess this is why I've stuck to the forums before now. I'm looking at Champion's discount eBay store for the radiator funnily enough. Think I'll be going that route and not buying from the guy on Facebook anymore...
#588
05-20-2018, 02:42 PM
Do you mind me asking where you got the new one? I'm doing this on a budget and if buying new is going to be too expensive, then it's probably going to be buy a radiator and use the engine driven fan for now at least...
#589
05-20-2018, 02:50 PM
Autozone about $150. You might luck up and fine a good JY one, but i didnt. I also scored my electric fan from a JY. It came from similar models also 95 is taurus, mustang, or lincoln mark viii. You can find the thermostat control switch that will screw into the engine coolant elbow for about $25 on the web. I have to operate on a budget as well, so I know the struggle.
#590
05-20-2018, 10:01 PM
Lead Driver
As said, you can find the Mega-Fuse (a style, not a brand) at most auto parts stores. Even Ford used them on some vehicles, such as the '97 Mountaineer a buddy got an engine from.
But the fuse is only one third of the equation. The other two are the fuse holder and the wire/cable big enough to be safe.
Ford literally overkills it for once in this regard, but it's great. Personally I've always said that there is no such thing as overkill with battery/charge cables.
So depending on the length of wire you will use between the main output post on the new alternator and the starter relay/battery connection, a 6ga wire (battery cable size) is the minimum, and what Ford uses on many of the cars and vehicles with shorter wire runs. On larger wire runs, and heavier duty vehicles, they use larger 4ga cable.
I've used both, and have never had a problem that put them to the stress test.
As far as fuse rating, since even a garden variety 3G can put out 140-150 amps, I would use 150a as the smallest fuse rating for your setup. We sell 150a and 175a Mega-Fuse fuses with our cable setups (https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/produc...ronco_Starters) and I feel a 130 or less would be prone to blowing prematurely under just the right/wrong circumstances.
Luckily you can get away with less most of the time. I just hate to build for "most of the time" when it's the one-time-only that gets you stranded!
Good luck.
Paul
But the fuse is only one third of the equation. The other two are the fuse holder and the wire/cable big enough to be safe.
Ford literally overkills it for once in this regard, but it's great. Personally I've always said that there is no such thing as overkill with battery/charge cables.
So depending on the length of wire you will use between the main output post on the new alternator and the starter relay/battery connection, a 6ga wire (battery cable size) is the minimum, and what Ford uses on many of the cars and vehicles with shorter wire runs. On larger wire runs, and heavier duty vehicles, they use larger 4ga cable.
I've used both, and have never had a problem that put them to the stress test.
As far as fuse rating, since even a garden variety 3G can put out 140-150 amps, I would use 150a as the smallest fuse rating for your setup. We sell 150a and 175a Mega-Fuse fuses with our cable setups (https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/produc...ronco_Starters) and I feel a 130 or less would be prone to blowing prematurely under just the right/wrong circumstances.
Luckily you can get away with less most of the time. I just hate to build for "most of the time" when it's the one-time-only that gets you stranded!
Good luck.
Paul
#591
05-23-2018, 05:42 PM
So I've found and bought a harness kit to use with the 3G upgrade and it comes with 4ga wire for the alternator to battery wire so think I'm ok there. Also comes with 150amp mega-fuse so should be set.
Found a 130amp alternator from Summit that looks remarkably similar to the one I have installed. What's a surefire way to tell the alternator in the truck is not a 3G before I make a fool of myself and replace it unnecessarily?
Found a 130amp alternator from Summit that looks remarkably similar to the one I have installed. What's a surefire way to tell the alternator in the truck is not a 3G before I make a fool of myself and replace it unnecessarily?
#593
05-23-2018, 08:36 PM
Lead Driver
In the thread bulldog linked to, in post #12 you can see a decent image of what a standard case 3G looks like. In this case it's the 130a version which is indicated by the two holes in that boss at the 12 o'clock position. The 95a version has three or four holes (I don't remember which) but otherwise looks very similar.
There's also a thread just in the last day or so where there is a side-by-side comparison to the two ratings.
There are also large-case and small-case 3G's that put out the same power. You can use either, but seems to me that the larger case would be more desirable from a cooling and longevity standpoint.
And since the large one still fits in the same space, and probably costs about the same, might as well use it.
Just to be sure, do you have a pic of yours?
When in doubt, if it's got an external fan, it's NOT a 3G. The fan went internal on 3G's and was external only on 1G and 2G models last time I checked.
Paul
There's also a thread just in the last day or so where there is a side-by-side comparison to the two ratings.
There are also large-case and small-case 3G's that put out the same power. You can use either, but seems to me that the larger case would be more desirable from a cooling and longevity standpoint.
And since the large one still fits in the same space, and probably costs about the same, might as well use it.
Just to be sure, do you have a pic of yours?
When in doubt, if it's got an external fan, it's NOT a 3G. The fan went internal on 3G's and was external only on 1G and 2G models last time I checked.
Paul
#594
05-23-2018, 09:40 PM
In the thread bulldog linked to, in post #12 you can see a decent image of what a standard case 3G looks like. In this case it's the 130a version which is indicated by the two holes in that boss at the 12 o'clock position. The 95a version has three or four holes (I don't remember which) but otherwise looks very similar.
There's also a thread just in the last day or so where there is a side-by-side comparison to the two ratings.
There are also large-case and small-case 3G's that put out the same power. You can use either, but seems to me that the larger case would be more desirable from a cooling and longevity standpoint.
And since the large one still fits in the same space, and probably costs about the same, might as well use it.
Just to be sure, do you have a pic of yours?
When in doubt, if it's got an external fan, it's NOT a 3G. The fan went internal on 3G's and was external only on 1G and 2G models last time I checked.
Paul
There's also a thread just in the last day or so where there is a side-by-side comparison to the two ratings.
There are also large-case and small-case 3G's that put out the same power. You can use either, but seems to me that the larger case would be more desirable from a cooling and longevity standpoint.
And since the large one still fits in the same space, and probably costs about the same, might as well use it.
Just to be sure, do you have a pic of yours?
When in doubt, if it's got an external fan, it's NOT a 3G. The fan went internal on 3G's and was external only on 1G and 2G models last time I checked.
Paul
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...RoCqJMQAvD_BwE
This is what made me think about it but the likelihood of the PO swapping to a high rated alternator is pretty slim I would think.
#595
05-23-2018, 09:44 PM
Laughing Gas
#596
05-23-2018, 09:49 PM
Lead Driver
Maybe, but it does happen. I've seen plenty of swaps, including to the GM style pictured in that link. Looks very similar to the Ford, but with some slight variations.
But if yours looks even remotely like that, it's not a 3G anyway.
Still, if you've got some high-zoot 200 amp monster and it's working, no sense in tossing it out until it fails. Be tossing out an expensive bit of kit.
Actually, even though I can't say I've ever seen one from the factory, I was under the impression that Ford offered the 70a and 105a "large case" 1G alternators on our trucks.
If so, even though it's not as stout as a 3G and not as simple to wire up, it's an excellent unit. Worth keeping in some cases, though a 3G is the stuff.
Oh, and dopey me was saying something about a thread somewhere near that had a good image comparing the two 3G styles? Well it's right at the top of this page!
So there 'ya go!
Paul
But if yours looks even remotely like that, it's not a 3G anyway.
Still, if you've got some high-zoot 200 amp monster and it's working, no sense in tossing it out until it fails. Be tossing out an expensive bit of kit.
Actually, even though I can't say I've ever seen one from the factory, I was under the impression that Ford offered the 70a and 105a "large case" 1G alternators on our trucks.
If so, even though it's not as stout as a 3G and not as simple to wire up, it's an excellent unit. Worth keeping in some cases, though a 3G is the stuff.
Oh, and dopey me was saying something about a thread somewhere near that had a good image comparing the two 3G styles? Well it's right at the top of this page!
So there 'ya go!
Paul
#597
05-23-2018, 10:31 PM
I'd happily go with a rebuilt unit from eBay if it comes with a guarantee and the seller has good feedback. Any ideas who you bought it from our the search term you used? I'm going to keep digging for one.
#598
05-23-2018, 10:38 PM
Maybe, but it does happen. I've seen plenty of swaps, including to the GM style pictured in that link. Looks very similar to the Ford, but with some slight variations.
But if yours looks even remotely like that, it's not a 3G anyway.
Still, if you've got some high-zoot 200 amp monster and it's working, no sense in tossing it out until it fails. Be tossing out an expensive bit of kit.
Actually, even though I can't say I've ever seen one from the factory, I was under the impression that Ford offered the 70a and 105a "large case" 1G alternators on our trucks.
If so, even though it's not as stout as a 3G and not as simple to wire up, it's an excellent unit. Worth keeping in some cases, though a 3G is the stuff.
Oh, and dopey me was saying something about a thread somewhere near that had a good image comparing the two 3G styles? Well it's right at the top of this page!
So there 'ya go!
Paul
But if yours looks even remotely like that, it's not a 3G anyway.
Still, if you've got some high-zoot 200 amp monster and it's working, no sense in tossing it out until it fails. Be tossing out an expensive bit of kit.
Actually, even though I can't say I've ever seen one from the factory, I was under the impression that Ford offered the 70a and 105a "large case" 1G alternators on our trucks.
If so, even though it's not as stout as a 3G and not as simple to wire up, it's an excellent unit. Worth keeping in some cases, though a 3G is the stuff.
Oh, and dopey me was saying something about a thread somewhere near that had a good image comparing the two 3G styles? Well it's right at the top of this page!
So there 'ya go!
Paul
Is there any way I can test this alternator and find out the rating? I'm going to pull it out tomorrow anyway to see if I can figure out what it is.
Based on me thinking on going to electric fans I'm thinking of upping the electrical system now so I don't have to wait later. The current alternator works but unless it's high amperage it's on it's way out!
#599
05-24-2018, 03:53 AM
Lead Driver
Sounds like a plan. And maybe someone can put the old one to good use.
As for testing, yes you can. But it takes some sort of a working ammeter to know for sure. If your truck's ammeter actually works (not many do I don't think), or if you have an inductive ammeter (or amp-meter if you prefer) you can "full-field" the regulator and the alternator will put out it's maximum available current while you measure with your gauge. Full-fielding is basically jumpering the full 12v to the Field wire (the Orange one at the regulator) which tells the alternator to show it's stuff. It can probably be done while connected to the regulator, but the usual method is to pull the 4-wire connector off of the regulator and jump the Yellow (full battery power) to the Orange (field to the alternator) and see what happens.
Just don't leave it like that for longer than it takes to test. Puts a strain on things, as you can imagine.
Otherwise I don't know if the local parts store's tester can measure output or not. I bet they can if the person helping out knows how to use it properly.
Paul
As for testing, yes you can. But it takes some sort of a working ammeter to know for sure. If your truck's ammeter actually works (not many do I don't think), or if you have an inductive ammeter (or amp-meter if you prefer) you can "full-field" the regulator and the alternator will put out it's maximum available current while you measure with your gauge. Full-fielding is basically jumpering the full 12v to the Field wire (the Orange one at the regulator) which tells the alternator to show it's stuff. It can probably be done while connected to the regulator, but the usual method is to pull the 4-wire connector off of the regulator and jump the Yellow (full battery power) to the Orange (field to the alternator) and see what happens.
Just don't leave it like that for longer than it takes to test. Puts a strain on things, as you can imagine.
Otherwise I don't know if the local parts store's tester can measure output or not. I bet they can if the person helping out knows how to use it properly.
Paul
#600
07-20-2019, 06:09 PM
3g troubles
Hey everyone,
hoping for some help. 77 f250 with a 429, msd 6AL box, distributor, and coil. I am attempting a 3g swap. I have it all wired up and now my cab and ignition box has constant power when I hook the battery up (ignition switch off). The buzzer comes on in the cab and the led on the msd box comes on when I hook up the battery. Any idea how everything is getting power? I’m wondering if I need to install the diode on the green/red wire from the new voltage regulator.
Thanks
hoping for some help. 77 f250 with a 429, msd 6AL box, distributor, and coil. I am attempting a 3g swap. I have it all wired up and now my cab and ignition box has constant power when I hook the battery up (ignition switch off). The buzzer comes on in the cab and the led on the msd box comes on when I hook up the battery. Any idea how everything is getting power? I’m wondering if I need to install the diode on the green/red wire from the new voltage regulator.
Thanks