Want bigger engine
#1
08-17-1999, 01:42 AM
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Want bigger engine
My "hiPo" 302 has a bad thrust bearing and I'm pulling the motor (out of a 76 f100). I don't know how it was hiPo it came from an engine rebuilder into my Dad's Ranchero. It had a 351 firing order. I put an Edelbrock performer manifold and 625cfm carb and had dual exhaust with stock manifolds. The power was decent, (it used to have a six) but I long for more low end torque. With the smallblock C6 tranny and 3.50 gearing I was getting around 11mpg. I am thinking of putting a 351W in it's place and have already purchased an Edelbrock Performer intake for the 351W. Being budget minded, I am thinking of buying a junkyard motor. I can't find any header application listings for the 351W. I am wondering whether I should be considering other big block motors such as the 390 or the Modifieds? I am told that my engine perchs will work with the 351m-400, or the 351W (just learned that the 351C has a smallblock bolt pattern but I understand that it is not designed for low end power). My c-6 leaks fluid into the bell housing but otherwise seems to work fine. I would like to have better low end torque and improve my gas mileage. If I went to the modified I would have to spend about $150 (and perhaps have to alter my driveline) to change transmission, and I hear putting an Intake Manifold on is difficult because of pushrods. With the 390 I would also have to acquire different engine perches. I'm thinking that the 351W is the best solution. What about shorty headers in place of stock manifolds? What about full lenghth headers for Mustangs? What about installing Edelbrocks matching cam in an old motor (without machining) I can return the manifold and trade towards another if I need to. The motor I'm looking at has 150lbs of compression on all cylinders and supposed good oil pressure. The oil looks pretty dirty and I can feel a click if I pull on the harmonic balancer (although no where near as much as the .25-.33 of an inch on my 302) Ideas anyone? I'd love to buy a good long block but they cost a lot more money and I only drive my truck a couple of times a week.
#2
08-17-1999, 06:42 AM
#3
08-18-1999, 01:39 AM
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Want bigger engine
Buying a Long block from Ford dealer @ approx $1300 upper end. Tempted to buy junkyard 351W for 350. I have the new edelbrock intake and gaskets, have a year old edelbrock 4 barrel that was working well on 302. Will have to spend some dollars altering my intermediate pipes. I would prefer to have the improvement of headers but may just have to settle for stock manifolds. My water pump was leaking so I will have to replace that, and I envision that my fuel pump to carb gas line won't reach on the taller 351W so I'll have to have a new one made or figureout how to flare my ends and make my own. I already have way too much money into this truck. I am concerned about end play on the cranks of used motors. Understandably a junkyard motor will be looser. Is a slight click as I pull on the front pulley alarming? My 302 can be pulled .25 to .33 inches (crude guess). The used motors were moveable but not like my 302? I envision replacing the oil pump and oil pan gasket as well.
Can an Edelbrock Cam be installed in the old motor inexpensively (before dropping in the truck)? This wrecking yard does a very high volume and claims to save only good motors. This motor has 150lbs of compression on all cylinders and "good" oil pressure. If I'm inviteing disaster by my cheapness I can hold off and save for a good rebuild, but I'm not looking to drag race, just have a spirited, cool sounding(I'm a musician) somewhat dependeble truck for hauling my 6 hundred pounds of gear once a week and go skiing occasionally. I intend on rebuilding the 302 at my leisure as a hobby project. I felt lucky to get dual exhaust fabricated for my 302(not quite legal) So I am leary about changing it too much. Maybe I should remove it and save it in case I have to put my rebuilt 302 back in. The shop that did it would like me to give them the truck and then give me a big bill when it is done.
Can an Edelbrock Cam be installed in the old motor inexpensively (before dropping in the truck)? This wrecking yard does a very high volume and claims to save only good motors. This motor has 150lbs of compression on all cylinders and "good" oil pressure. If I'm inviteing disaster by my cheapness I can hold off and save for a good rebuild, but I'm not looking to drag race, just have a spirited, cool sounding(I'm a musician) somewhat dependeble truck for hauling my 6 hundred pounds of gear once a week and go skiing occasionally. I intend on rebuilding the 302 at my leisure as a hobby project. I felt lucky to get dual exhaust fabricated for my 302(not quite legal) So I am leary about changing it too much. Maybe I should remove it and save it in case I have to put my rebuilt 302 back in. The shop that did it would like me to give them the truck and then give me a big bill when it is done.
#5
08-18-1999, 08:55 AM
Want bigger engine
Biggie:
You are inviting disaster if you replace the cam without also replacing the cam bearings and lifters. The lifters and camshaft wear-in together and if you replace the cam without replacing the lifters you may distroy the lifters or grind-off some of the lobes on your new cam. All this damage can happen within a few hundred to a few thousand miles. It’s not worth the risk.
If you are doing a real cheap swap then go ahead and use the junk-yard motor as is, and pray it runs OK. Modifying it without a complete rebuild will teach you a lot about engines because you will need to rebuild it shortly after you start using it.
Drain the oil completely from the pan and check it for fine metal particles. Shouldn’t be any (or very few) on a well lubricated engine, regardless of miles. Brass particles mean you have main or rod bearing damage. If its OK then buy it and go ahead and use the Edelbrock intake and carb. Realize you are running a risk of getting someone else’s headache, but you may also be getting a fine engine.
In ’95 I bought a ’77 Ranchero with a 400M that had a broken cam. I only paid $300 for it. I did a cheap rebuild of the engine and had the trans rebuilt. I tore the engine down, reamed-off the slight ridge and honed the cylinders. I re-used the old crank, rods and pistons (after cleaning them thoroughly). I had new cam bearings installed and installed a new cam and lifters. I put everything together with a rebuild bearing, rings and gasket kit. The valve stems were within spec so I hand lapped the valves just to be sure. Total cost of the engine rebuild was $400 to $500 plus two weekends of my time.
It runs great and I now know I have a good engine. I have since transplanted it into a ’71 F-350 and I love it. I also know it was a cheap rebuild so I will not rev it past 3,500 RPM, just to be safe. For my purposes this is fine. It idles smoothly, pulls great and sounds nice, rumbling through a dual exhaust system with glass packs.
Good Luck.
Bruce
You are inviting disaster if you replace the cam without also replacing the cam bearings and lifters. The lifters and camshaft wear-in together and if you replace the cam without replacing the lifters you may distroy the lifters or grind-off some of the lobes on your new cam. All this damage can happen within a few hundred to a few thousand miles. It’s not worth the risk.
If you are doing a real cheap swap then go ahead and use the junk-yard motor as is, and pray it runs OK. Modifying it without a complete rebuild will teach you a lot about engines because you will need to rebuild it shortly after you start using it.
Drain the oil completely from the pan and check it for fine metal particles. Shouldn’t be any (or very few) on a well lubricated engine, regardless of miles. Brass particles mean you have main or rod bearing damage. If its OK then buy it and go ahead and use the Edelbrock intake and carb. Realize you are running a risk of getting someone else’s headache, but you may also be getting a fine engine.
In ’95 I bought a ’77 Ranchero with a 400M that had a broken cam. I only paid $300 for it. I did a cheap rebuild of the engine and had the trans rebuilt. I tore the engine down, reamed-off the slight ridge and honed the cylinders. I re-used the old crank, rods and pistons (after cleaning them thoroughly). I had new cam bearings installed and installed a new cam and lifters. I put everything together with a rebuild bearing, rings and gasket kit. The valve stems were within spec so I hand lapped the valves just to be sure. Total cost of the engine rebuild was $400 to $500 plus two weekends of my time.
It runs great and I now know I have a good engine. I have since transplanted it into a ’71 F-350 and I love it. I also know it was a cheap rebuild so I will not rev it past 3,500 RPM, just to be safe. For my purposes this is fine. It idles smoothly, pulls great and sounds nice, rumbling through a dual exhaust system with glass packs.
Good Luck.
Bruce