Hybrid popularity
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,476
Likes: 224
From: Frequently frozen MN
Hybrid popularity
Apparently hybrids aren't really that popular yet.
Electric cars struggle to spark enthusiasm | Business | guardian.co.uk.
From all of the normal media hype, you'd think that they were outselling the F150.
IMHO, they represent a poor approach. Two motors plus batteries (using some rare materials), just doesn't seem right. I'm not taking sides on the need for an alternate vehicle, I just don't see this as the way to go.
Comments?
Electric cars struggle to spark enthusiasm | Business | guardian.co.uk.
From all of the normal media hype, you'd think that they were outselling the F150.
IMHO, they represent a poor approach. Two motors plus batteries (using some rare materials), just doesn't seem right. I'm not taking sides on the need for an alternate vehicle, I just don't see this as the way to go.
Comments?
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 12,324
Likes: 1,301
From: Central Mississippi
There is a 9/10ths completed Toyota Prius plant in north Mississippi gathering dust. Completion of the plant was halted due to the economic debacle in fall 08. I haven't heard anything concerning the availability of Prius-ses (?) or wait times if one should be desired to be purchased.
Ford seems to be doing well with its hybrids though, & it appears to be reflected with its stock price bouncing around the $12 range.
Ford seems to be doing well with its hybrids though, & it appears to be reflected with its stock price bouncing around the $12 range.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
Toyota is planning on double the hybrid output in the coming year. Last year's depressed market was temporary. While they are more complex, hybrids are a decent short-term solution for those that drive mostly in dense city traffic, but also take long trips. CNG is limited to in-city driving because there is no infrastructure in place outside a few big cities.
My brother is on his third CNG car, so my experience is with them is real. When he sold the Crown Vic to a taxi operator at SFO, we were stranded halfway because there was exactly ONE public CNG dispenser in central California, unattended, and it was out of service.
Hydrogen will not work for the same reason. The H2 cars that GM and Honda have running around as an experiment cant be driven outside Los Angeles. They basically have to go to the BP or Shell refinery to fill up.
Jim
My brother is on his third CNG car, so my experience is with them is real. When he sold the Crown Vic to a taxi operator at SFO, we were stranded halfway because there was exactly ONE public CNG dispenser in central California, unattended, and it was out of service.
Hydrogen will not work for the same reason. The H2 cars that GM and Honda have running around as an experiment cant be driven outside Los Angeles. They basically have to go to the BP or Shell refinery to fill up.
Jim
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,473
Likes: 4
From: Lafayette, IN
Hydrogen is a terrible means of transmitting energy. For one, the conversion process is inefficient--hydrogen does not occur naturally, it must be separated from another molecule, such as water. On top of that, it is difficult to transport and store safely.
I'm of a mixed opinion on hybrids. I think the small hybrids are a bad idea--batteries add too much weight to a small car for them to add much efficiency. The Chevy Volt is no better, as "zero-emissions" is a falsehood--all it does is relocate the emissions from the car's tailpipe to the power plant's smokestack. If we were entire on wind, solar, hydroelectric and nuclear power, I'd be okay with it (the first 3, by the way, are "piddle power" and can't come close to meeting this country's power needs). What I'd like to see are more large hybrids--diesel/electric trucks that can better handle the weight, and would be excellent platforms for other features like regenerative braking (braking charges the batteries instead of dissipating the kinetic energy as heat) and the like.
Jason
I'm of a mixed opinion on hybrids. I think the small hybrids are a bad idea--batteries add too much weight to a small car for them to add much efficiency. The Chevy Volt is no better, as "zero-emissions" is a falsehood--all it does is relocate the emissions from the car's tailpipe to the power plant's smokestack. If we were entire on wind, solar, hydroelectric and nuclear power, I'd be okay with it (the first 3, by the way, are "piddle power" and can't come close to meeting this country's power needs). What I'd like to see are more large hybrids--diesel/electric trucks that can better handle the weight, and would be excellent platforms for other features like regenerative braking (braking charges the batteries instead of dissipating the kinetic energy as heat) and the like.
Jason
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,402
Likes: 10
A couple of years ago a US university undertook a project to determin the most environmentally friendly car on sale in the US. The winner was the Jeep Wrangler 4.0. The Prius came in about about 30th. mainly because of the environmental impact of its complex construction and the impact of its disposal.
The Jeep on the other hand was simple to build, lasted on average 23 years and was easy to dispose of .
The Jeep on the other hand was simple to build, lasted on average 23 years and was easy to dispose of .
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 825
Likes: 1
From: SW Washington coast
There is a lot to be said for something that will rust away ...
The VW TDI gets better mileage that some of the hybrids ... Mercedes 300 TD is a good setup ... And if you toss in methane/water or propane injection you get even better fuel efficiency ...
The VW TDI gets better mileage that some of the hybrids ... Mercedes 300 TD is a good setup ... And if you toss in methane/water or propane injection you get even better fuel efficiency ...
Trending Topics
Moderator
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 158,276
Likes: 11,947
From: Greenfield, MA
There is a 9/10ths completed Toyota Prius plant in north Mississippi gathering dust. Completion of the plant was halted due to the economic debacle in fall 08. I haven't heard anything concerning the availability of Prius-ses (?) or wait times if one should be desired to be purchased.
Ford seems to be doing well with its hybrids though, & it appears to be reflected with its stock price bouncing around the $12 range.
Ford seems to be doing well with its hybrids though, & it appears to be reflected with its stock price bouncing around the $12 range.
There are plenty of the Prius available...as well as Camry and Highlander hybrids. Our dealership is dualled with a 'Yota store...we have 6 Prius in the lot now.
I'm not sure that the Ford hybrids have a whole lot to do with their stock price. I think the overall business model...along with great products has more to do with investors confidence in Ford. The Ford hybrids comprise a very small portion of those great products.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 40,006
Likes: 1,517
From: Maine, Virginia
Hybrid power trains are still adding thousands to the price of the vehicle. That's a great deal of gasoline. I'm greatly concerned about resale, longevity and reliability after 100K miles. Today's well maintained gas engines will run 200K miles plus with minimal repairs.
I'm totally sold on diesel power if the EPA would leave them be and allow them to achieve the MPG's that they were designed to achieve.
I also believe that the Hybrids are there more for the companies CAFE standards than for the consumer.
Tim
I'm totally sold on diesel power if the EPA would leave them be and allow them to achieve the MPG's that they were designed to achieve.
I also believe that the Hybrids are there more for the companies CAFE standards than for the consumer.
Tim
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
From: eastern nc
I am the owner of several Prius (07 & 2 - 08) and a former owner of a VW TDI (04). So far the Prius is the better of the two. More miles on the prius than I had on the TDI. They are both good autos. Pricing similar. The TDI had some fickle maintenance and service requirements. TDI 45 Hwy., 35 City. Front seats comfortable, back seats ok for kids, cramped for adults. Prius, 46 hwy. 48+ city. Front seats comfortable, back seats comfortable. Preformance seems to be about the same for both. Time will tell on durability of Prius. One has near 50k. Had a friend who had a Prius as a company car they replaced it at 196k, brakes were still at 80%, nothing other than regular maintenance. He said he would have bought it if he knew they were going to sell it. Diesel fuel is about 10% - 15% more than gasoline.
Just thought I would share this information.
Just thought I would share this information.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
Diesels tend to do better on the highway and gasoline hybrids in the city. You need to choose the right tool for the job. I used to think a diesel hybrid would be ideal, but the price premium can no way justify it. The cost of cleaning up emissions on diesels to meet 50-state passenger car standards is just to high.
BTW, the EPA test cycle is not a the best way to predict real-world mileage for alternative powertrains, but its all we have. The Volt getting 200+ mpg in the test proves that we need something else. I know Prius owners that get way different mileage because they are more sensitive to operating conditions and driving style that conventional gasoline engine automatic transmission cars. One family gets way less and the other way more, up to 60mpg on a Reno-Oakland commute, which includes high mountain passes, supposedly bad for hybrid performance.
Jim
BTW, the EPA test cycle is not a the best way to predict real-world mileage for alternative powertrains, but its all we have. The Volt getting 200+ mpg in the test proves that we need something else. I know Prius owners that get way different mileage because they are more sensitive to operating conditions and driving style that conventional gasoline engine automatic transmission cars. One family gets way less and the other way more, up to 60mpg on a Reno-Oakland commute, which includes high mountain passes, supposedly bad for hybrid performance.
Jim
