Yea an its sad that a lot of people who have Toyota Honda an so on had family die in Pearl Harbor fighting the Japs an here we are biying their products an talking trash bout our own companies that help fight off the Japs back then. Same goes to Korea & Vitenam we buy there products. Problems is to many people care bout quantity & not quality since US products cost more they go for foreign crap cause they can buy more of it.

 

Good grief, do any of you actually listen to yourselves? Who cares why somebody buys a truck? Sounds to me like it is a case of genital envy...

 

Look at the Foreign parts content of a Toyota or Honda compared to the big 2 1/2 here in the US, you just may be in for a surprise. For years Toyota and Honda sold vehicles for MORE money than an equivalent "american" car.

 

I think its funny that if you want to buy a real truck from ford (ie one with a manual trans) you have to buy a ranger...the smallest truck they make

 

The Ranger has been discontinued, 2011 MY is the last. So no more Rangers with a manual trans either.

 

I am happy to report I switched in December. Yep, traded in my '05 F-350 4wd 6spd, V-10 for a Ram 2500 4wd, 6spd, 3.73 posi, and w/Cummins diesel, and I couldn't be happier. Yeah, I have heard it all, weak clutches, ball joints, u-joints--so far I am tickled. Love the low end torque from the Cummins. I suppose the wheels will fall off next week, If they do, I will fix em. And the best thing to work on the Cummins, you do not have to lift the bed off the chassis.

I had the pleasure of driving two of the best trucks made in the world, I started with a new '99 F-250, 4X4, 5spd, V-10 and drove it 100,000 trouble free miles. Then traded for a new '05 F-350, 4x4, 6spd, V-10 and it was even better than my '99. I was really a Ford supporter. Even sprung for a new '06 Crown Vic..Man, did I love that car company!
Then when '10 hit, they announced no more V-10's in their F-350, but a new designed V-8 had taken it's place. Equal or better in performance (yeah RIGHT), And they dropped the 6spd manual with manual hubs. WHAT A BUMMER! I milked another year out of my best friend '05 hoping Ford would change it's mind and offer a real truck again in '12.....NOT TO BE!
They no longer cared about offering a product for me. So, Dodge got my money for the RAM diesel with manual, and guys, Ford had better be watching their back. Seats are nicer, nicer interior with standard fold down storage, all kinds of dash storage compartments, and so far I love that torque monster Cummins. WAKE UP FORD BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.
PS
THis talk of Ford not getting bailout money, just ask them about the no bid gov contract vehicles they got. And, they recivd gov money earlier for plant modernizations. Ford has been at the gov trough to feed too, just a little more sly about it

 

The Cummings is really a good engine....but let me tell you about my Dodge Truck experience.....

What I do know from personal experience......

my neighbor across the street had a 2003 Dodge 4x4, 4-door cab, extended bed, V10, auto, etc with the factory (dealer installed) lift kit. At 3 years of age with 45,000 miles (all in Los Angeles)...
1. The piston rings let go- engine replaced under warranty
2. Valve guides let go- heads replaced under warranty
3. Transmission failed 3 times, rebuilt 2 times by factory, 3rd time he was on his own
4. Diff gears failed- owner replaced

Then he comes to my house one day in 2006:

The front lift kit is literally falling off the truck (yup, the metal is actually tearing). Factory has issued a recall but, available parts are limited to the front right (IIRR)...no parts available for the left front

Where imminent failure is likely, dealers were authorized to conduct repairs at any qualified welding facility- in this case the dealer sent the truck to Midas muffler, where they mig welded the structural cracks (ok...stop laughing that hard now!)

Now it's at my house with the front wheels sitting like a duck! The oem lift kit was definitely made overseas- gauge (thickness) of metal was clearly sub-standard for a vehicle of this size and weight. The replacement parts were basically stamped steel plate (about 18 gauge) which covered the entire lift kit parts that attached to the frame, Just one little issue--- besides being only 18 gauge (or about), the material was full of containments. As I took my grinder to reduce the mig welds to see conditions, the metal plate heated very irregularly showing multiple hot/cold spots within the same area. As I choose my oxy/acet torch with a large brazing tip, utilizing copper coated rod, the metal plate literally developed hot spots in the adjacent areas, where metal areas about the size of a penny "suddenly liquified", with absolutely no direct flame impingement. Within a minute it looked just like a piece of metal that had been sitting out in the elements for 30 years and had rust-like holes in it- except it was still shiny of course.

Sitting back for a minute and giving this some thought, I took some 1/2" flat bar steel and with heat, gently formed an inner and outer brace along each of the lift kit components, then welded up any suspected/visual cracks or fatigue locations.

The owner helped the whole time.....when done, he asked me what I thought....my response:

1. Don't drive this thing over 30 mph
2. I doubt if this will hold for more than 3 weeks
3. Get this thing to a dealer and trade it in

9 weeks later he knocked on my door, one of the parts was starting to fail again in another area, not one single Chrysler dealer in Los Angeles would touch the truck on a trade in (well one in Valencia offered him $500 for his truck, wheels and tires basically, the truck would be scrapped), he found a GM dealer that would give him $2k (mind you this was a new $50,000 truck 3 years prior)- and asked if I would weld it up one more time...I looked at it and said, yeah, but give the dealer a call first to see if they will just tow it- they did.

The Dodge trucks are crap (not that everyone's trucks don't have some type of issue) , to this day the same mfg builds the Nissan & Dodge full size truck auto trans- the torque converter impellors (V8 trucks) are only brazed in still, which causes eventual torque converter failure-

but for any mfg to allow critical safety related components to be used that do not meet the most basic stree demand requirements and additionally take no action on conditions that will kill occupants and place others on the roadway in immediate jeopardy is criminal!

But this is or was the corporations "value system"- let em sue and we will provide support when it's convenient!

Now I realize Dodge is now Fiat which is owned by Tata Motors (middle eastern) so their q/a & customer service may have changed, but I have an issue about buying a product no matter how good it is from other than a US owner.

 

Sorry but I didn't have the time or the patience to read the other 10 paragraphs of jabber you typed...but where exactly does what I quoted apply to your reply?

What about non-safety related components...say...cruise control switches that potentially place alot of things at risk fit into your logic?

 

First of all, its Cummins, not Cummings.

Chrysler did not put a lift kit on at the factory, BLAME THE DEALER. A Ford dealer could, and many do, install the same junk. The "factory" recall is probably from the kit supplier, or the dealer is lying, what a surprise!

How do you know its an "OEM" lift kit? Why not say China instead of "overseas". I dislike China at least as much as you probably do.

Tata is in India, which is not "middle eastern" by most people's definition. Tata does not own Fiat, it markets and distributes Fiat cars in India. That must be the source of confusion. I do agree with you that Dodge is not an American brand because of Fiat ownership, but it had been under Daimler ownership for many years before, nothing new.

 

Let me make it simple for you......

18 gauge stamped metal is not strong enough to support the front suspension of a 2.5 ton 4x4 truck

Once identified, the oem should provide repair parts for them....this was an "out of stock/Back-ordered item"....for 2 years.

Dodge V8 & V10 torque converters...known for 15+ years to have tq converter failure because the impellors are spot brazes, not spot welded......big difference in strength

Differentials......known for having a wider than normal acceptance for tolerence variation, causes gears to wear improperly and fail.


There, that simple enough for you!

 

The vehicle was purchased new by the owner...the dealer installed lift kit had oem stamped markings including part numbers.......yes, it was probably made either in china or mexico. While it was obviously like many parts made by a sub-contractor, the OEM wrote or approved the specs....per several dealers in los Angeles that I personally visited or spoke with, the lift & repair parts were an exclusive Chysler/Dodge item and could not be obtained by any other means.......I also called numerous aftermarket shops/suppliers including Warhol racing (gone now) who check and confirmed this.

 

You mean how Ford has probably kept Timesert profitable for years....

Which neither have to do with the safety integrity of a vehicle. But if you want to start throwing rocks in a glass house. They are all quilty at some point of "miss-engineering" their products somewhere down the line and sticking it to the consumer.

Wasn't the 03 the first year re-design? Your buddy got a dud. And a dud with a cheap lift kit.

 

You mean how Ford has probably kept Timesert profitable for years....

Yes, because of Mr. Nasser's management foundation, Ford products were basically run into the ground in terms of quality........including windshield thickness reduction (which is actually a safety issue since the front end of a vehicles integraty includes the windshield, they reduced the thickness to 10mm which induced a lot od complaints due to exceccise wind noise) and sub-contracting paint operations out, F150 door problems, etc.

Which neither have to do with the safety integrity of a vehicle.

Sorry but it does......

The 18 gauge stamped steel plate was to be welded directly over the left & right front support (which is what was tearing apart- rips up to 6" in length) member the upper & lower control arms attach too.

Ever seen a torque converter experience sudden failure on a SoCal freeway? In heavy traffic? Let's put it this way, even if it is only 1% of the Dodge trucks experience this......per industry standard, if a new vehicle was 99% perfect to standard, there would be no less than 15 malfunctioning parts. The plane fact is annually, Dodge is still dealing with about 300,000 V8 truck tranny repairs a year asa result of design/quality issues (per industry publications)

But if you want to start throwing rocks in a glass house. They are all quilty at some point of "miss-engineering" their products somewhere down the line and sticking it to the consumer.

No, it is management standards being applied to increase short term profits in leiu of quality. There is no mis-engineering with the Dodge converters as the same company has been building them with the same specs since the late 1980's/early 1990's. When MB purchased chrysler, the new heads for the V8's was terminated.....even though they new they had water vapor buildup issues with 100% of the engines..........customers warranty claims were denied based upon improper oil changes (even when done & tracked by the dealers) which led to numerous class action lawsuits.

Let's talk trannys for minute.....him think the Nissan auto trannys are "weak".....guess who builds them...Aisen mfg, guess who builds the Dodge auto tranny (gas engine version)...Aisen, check the design specs....very similar....POS.

But this was the Dr. Dieter Zetsche's management team.....not only did he run Chrysler/Dodge into the ground but MB as well......check it out, after Chrysler was sold off, the board of directors of MB terminated every single top executive......publicly announced as well...including that the MB design groups next generation of MB's would be outsourced.

No vehicle is perfect, some have better engineering than others, each has their own issues, but after wrenching for 40 + years I know a POS when I see it..........BTW...Ford, nor GM, nor even Nissan ever used 18gauge stamped steel to reinforce/repair any full size truck front suspension that was "Tearing" off the front of the vehicles.......more importantly, in writing allow anyone to weld it up? or better yet, the repair part that is mandated is backorded for 2 years......try that one on for size.....people get ticked when that have to wait 30 days for a non-safety issue part.

FYI- with regards to your warranty....if you read your owners manual very, very carefully you will see, that at the end of the factory warranty period (3 year IIRR), to continue coverage on all components after (extended warranty) you are required to have a Chrysler/Dodge dealer conduct an inspection on the vehicle.

 

Hey beechkid, I just hope Dodge doesn't start using 20 ga! HAHAHA!
.
I know Dodge is a dirty word here, sorry to speak of my positive experiences with my Cummins Ram so far. When I tow, I pull a 12,000# gooseneck trailer with a skid steer, tree shear, stump grinder, bucket, also have a 110 gal diesel tank in the box infront of the gooseneck ball hitch. Pulls everything just fine any speed I want to go. Ride isn't as choppy as the F-350 was either. But that cummins will drink the diesel (9-10mpg) with that load. Sure do like opening up the hood and seeing that nice 6 cyl diesel sitting there with room to spare.

Like I said, I am waiting for the wheels to fall off.

 

And the good thing is now Ford and Dodge have both stepped up their game.


Good God man...if your looking into this torque converter issue so in depth..I hate to see your calculations involving a 18 wheeler sheding a tire on a freeway...heaven forbid you pass a Explorer with the Firestones still on!!! Really a moot point because depending on how diligent the owner is with maintance...anything can go wrong at any time. No matter the brand of vehicle.

Hmmm you don't think Ford or Chevy for that matter have never been involved in class action lawsuits?

Really? I know of 3 Dodge's personally...two 99's and one 00..the 00 was a 360 and the 99's were 318's..all pushing 200k miles and none have had a lick of tranny troubles. All three are still being currently used on a very large grain farm.....maintained....you bet.

That was Dodge then....is it like that now? I don't know. It's kinda like saying the new F150's or Ford for that matter is crap because your buddy blew out a few plugs in his 99 F150. Or had the head gaskets replaced 2 times in his 99 F150...or had his 99 F150 burn to the ground.....

Is this now?