F5 VIN question
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Junior User
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Shiner, Texas
F5 VIN question
Hi all,
I have a 51 f5 that is all original but new to me. I am trying to determine the transmission and differential information, but not having any luck. On the data tag inside the glovebox, under the VIN no. it says Model, then a W, B and T are stamped into spaces. Are these the codes for the transmission and differential, and what to they mean. Also, is there a way to determine the exact build date from the VIN Thanks, Jim
I have a 51 f5 that is all original but new to me. I am trying to determine the transmission and differential information, but not having any luck. On the data tag inside the glovebox, under the VIN no. it says Model, then a W, B and T are stamped into spaces. Are these the codes for the transmission and differential, and what to they mean. Also, is there a way to determine the exact build date from the VIN Thanks, Jim
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 21
From: Poway, Ca.
Well it kind of depends where the W,B, and T are.
Here's a page that will decipher the serial number for you. The differential gearing should be on the plate - "6.67," "5.83," or "5.14." The transmission too. It should have a 4spd Spur gear non synchro ("4"), or a 4 spd synchro ("4SYN". I'll post the 51 Transmission Specifications for you. If you post the VIN # I'll decipher it for you if you can't read the page.
The Vin numbers should be the same, but if you have one of the rare early type glove box tags, like the one Stu is about to post below (tee hee), they don't have much definate info about your transmission or rear end. But the specs sheet should help narrow it down.
Here's a page that will decipher the serial number for you. The differential gearing should be on the plate - "6.67," "5.83," or "5.14." The transmission too. It should have a 4spd Spur gear non synchro ("4"), or a 4 spd synchro ("4SYN". I'll post the 51 Transmission Specifications for you. If you post the VIN # I'll decipher it for you if you can't read the page.
The Vin numbers should be the same, but if you have one of the rare early type glove box tags, like the one Stu is about to post below (tee hee), they don't have much definate info about your transmission or rear end. But the specs sheet should help narrow it down.
Marmon-Herrington Man
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,984
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From: Central Illinois
I don't think that VIN interpretation page is gonna help the man with his plate, Julie. He's probably got an early '51 that has a plate like the one pictured below. The info I wrote on the picture is from my '51 F-3 donor truck. The only thing I can say for sure about my "W" "B" "Y" is that the "Y" is the model designation for an F-3. I'll say the same for Jim's "T" which is the model designation for an F-5. These old style plates weren't much help in sorting out other info. I should edit and add that the info contained on the pages you posted is absolutely helpful to Jim in sorting out what he has. Stu
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,641
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From: Poway, Ca.
Wow, your right Stu! But W/B/T. Yes the T is correct. I wonder if for 51 the finally changed away from the "9" on the 49s and 50s. Is it possible his "B" is actually an "R" for the 239? Or an "8?"
Here's an interesting tidbit from the 51 salemans handbook that shows the "9" still on the older rating plate. But it does have year numbers and engine codes: Take a look:
Edit comment: "B" could be the Buffalo assemble Plant. Only "W" I see in any of the literature is to designate a COE, or a 195" Wheel Base F8, or to designate of September of1952 If the B is for Buffalo then the serial number should be F5R(or H)1BF1XXXX.
I'd like to see a picture of this plate. It isn't Canadian is it?
Here's an interesting tidbit from the 51 salemans handbook that shows the "9" still on the older rating plate. But it does have year numbers and engine codes: Take a look:
Edit comment: "B" could be the Buffalo assemble Plant. Only "W" I see in any of the literature is to designate a COE, or a 195" Wheel Base F8, or to designate of September of1952 If the B is for Buffalo then the serial number should be F5R(or H)1BF1XXXX.
I'd like to see a picture of this plate. It isn't Canadian is it?
Marmon-Herrington Man
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,984
Likes: 444
From: Central Illinois
I've taken the plate off my glove box door and looked at it closely thinking too that I might be seeing the "W" and "B" incorrectly, but no such luck. I have no idea what those codes mean. What's interesting also is that Ford entered the new '52 style VIN number on the old style plate. They probably just used up the old plates after they switched to the newer VIN numbering sequence.
Marmon-Herrington Man
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,984
Likes: 444
From: Central Illinois
Jim - It might be interesting to know if your VIN number, like mine above, shows the truck was made at the Kansas City plant. If your VIN looks similar to mine, the "KC" in the middle of the VIN designates Kansas City. If yours was made there too, the "W" and "B" codes might have been unique to that plant and may have had meaning only to them.
Another thing to mention, you'll see in Julie's above info that the later style plate has an entry for "Production Code", which the books say is supposed to help document the truck's production date. Don't feel bad that your plate doesn't contain that info. On few trucks that I've seen, or heard of, do the entries in that block actually match the book's decoding explanation. On most the entries just make no sense, which has led us to speculate that each plant had their own way of doing things.
And last, I got real lucky figuring out the production date of my above F-3. One of the assembly line workers scratched the following in the fire wall. "#9" "3/12/51". Stu
Another thing to mention, you'll see in Julie's above info that the later style plate has an entry for "Production Code", which the books say is supposed to help document the truck's production date. Don't feel bad that your plate doesn't contain that info. On few trucks that I've seen, or heard of, do the entries in that block actually match the book's decoding explanation. On most the entries just make no sense, which has led us to speculate that each plant had their own way of doing things.
And last, I got real lucky figuring out the production date of my above F-3. One of the assembly line workers scratched the following in the fire wall. "#9" "3/12/51". Stu
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Junior User
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From: Shiner, Texas
Hi again,
You guys are the greatest. I have the tag just like you posted truckdog and Julie. I am pretty sure the W, B and T are right... it could be the B means Blue, since the truck is blue. I will post a picture of the dataplate if I can figure out how to later on today, The VIN is F5R1KC23135, Also, it has a 3 speed transmission with the shifter coming out of the top. I bought a service manual for the truck off of ebay, it says that was an optional transmission, but I dont see a 3 speed listed on the info posted here as an option on the F5. I am 99% sure all is original, but I guess you never know. Thanks again for your thoughts and ideas. Jim
You guys are the greatest. I have the tag just like you posted truckdog and Julie. I am pretty sure the W, B and T are right... it could be the B means Blue, since the truck is blue. I will post a picture of the dataplate if I can figure out how to later on today, The VIN is F5R1KC23135, Also, it has a 3 speed transmission with the shifter coming out of the top. I bought a service manual for the truck off of ebay, it says that was an optional transmission, but I dont see a 3 speed listed on the info posted here as an option on the F5. I am 99% sure all is original, but I guess you never know. Thanks again for your thoughts and ideas. Jim
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Marmon-Herrington Man
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Central Illinois
Jim - So the Kansas City connection is there. And at least you know that your truck was produced after 3/12/51 since the last five unique numbers in the VIN were assigned in order of production, irrespective of which model was rolling down the line. At least that's how it's been explained to me by a professional that I trust to know what he's talking about.
As for the "B" meaning Blue, I'm not so sure. Is your truck the dark blue, called Sheridan Blue, as listed in Julie's chart? Mine is a very light grey/blue color that I think is the Silverton Grey that would be a code "H" if your theory was true. But I've got the "B" code just the same as you do. It's a puzzle. Stu
As for the "B" meaning Blue, I'm not so sure. Is your truck the dark blue, called Sheridan Blue, as listed in Julie's chart? Mine is a very light grey/blue color that I think is the Silverton Grey that would be a code "H" if your theory was true. But I've got the "B" code just the same as you do. It's a puzzle. Stu
Marmon-Herrington Man
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,984
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From: Central Illinois
Two trucks, each a different model, separated by almost 8000 units that both have codes "W" and "B". Seems a reach to think they'd somehow each be a special order. There's got to be something else we're missing. I've tried to think back to old discussions we had about this on the defunct Bonus Built site but nothing is clicking. Probably ought to look through the pinned thread on VIN numbers to see if there's anything been said there. Or see if the search function yields anything. Stu
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,730
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From: Waynesville, OH
Jim,
Julie pulled up all the numeric data you'll ever need.
Some time ago, I tracked down a fella who worked for DuPont and was involved with development of "new" paints at the time our trucks were built. He had DuPont internal documents with all the paints they produced for Ford. He was unwilling to send his documents to me, but gave me a lot of information over the phone. Sadly, he has since passed on and I have no way of accessing those documents.
After cross-referencing his information with data I got from a gal at PPG, I put together the table at this link:
http://www.clubfte.com/users/earl/Re...aterial_2.html
I won't tell you there are NO errors in the information, but I got it first-hand from a fellow who was involved when our trucks were built and from folks at PPG who actually had done the work to color match the original Ford colors to their modern paint products.
Maybe it will you at least figure out which color your truck was originally painted.
Julie pulled up all the numeric data you'll ever need.
Some time ago, I tracked down a fella who worked for DuPont and was involved with development of "new" paints at the time our trucks were built. He had DuPont internal documents with all the paints they produced for Ford. He was unwilling to send his documents to me, but gave me a lot of information over the phone. Sadly, he has since passed on and I have no way of accessing those documents.
After cross-referencing his information with data I got from a gal at PPG, I put together the table at this link:
http://www.clubfte.com/users/earl/Re...aterial_2.html
I won't tell you there are NO errors in the information, but I got it first-hand from a fellow who was involved when our trucks were built and from folks at PPG who actually had done the work to color match the original Ford colors to their modern paint products.
Maybe it will you at least figure out which color your truck was originally painted.
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Junior User
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Shiner, Texas
Thanks again for all the great info. I made a mistake... I have a 4 speed after all... Was goofing around and found another gear.
As of today, the truck has sat for a long time (5 years or so), the brakes dont work but the clutch does. The gas tank (in the cab) was full of rust so while I clean up the fuel system (new pump, rebuild the carb and new lines and either replace or install a new tank under the bed), and address the brakes, the motor is soaking in MMO. I'll also put in plugs and points, cond., coil, cap and wires before trying to light it off. I'll post progress as it goes. Thanks again for all the help. Jim
As of today, the truck has sat for a long time (5 years or so), the brakes dont work but the clutch does. The gas tank (in the cab) was full of rust so while I clean up the fuel system (new pump, rebuild the carb and new lines and either replace or install a new tank under the bed), and address the brakes, the motor is soaking in MMO. I'll also put in plugs and points, cond., coil, cap and wires before trying to light it off. I'll post progress as it goes. Thanks again for all the help. Jim
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 21
From: Poway, Ca.
Ahhh! See the Newbie fibbed (3 speed humph). I'm really curious about this WB thing, bu tone thing we have found to be certain is that there are ALOT of odd and non designated letters used on these numbers and plates. We're not even going to bring up production codes!
