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  #16  
Old 01-03-2010, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by origcharger
Toyota Prius hybrid component warranty is 8 years/100k not 7.
2005 Prius warranty:

2005 Toyota Prius Technical Specifications - Consumer Guide Automotive

5 years powertrain, 8 year hybrid components

<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="table-sub"><td>Basic: 3 yr. / 36,000 mi. </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="stripe-five"> Drivetrain: 5 yr. / 60,000 mi. </td> </tr> <tr class="table-sub"> <td> Hybrid Component: 8 yr. / 100,000 mi. </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="stripe-five"> Roadside: 3 yr. / 36,000 mi. </td> </tr> <tr class="table-sub"> <td> Rust: 5 yr. / Unlimited mi. </td> </tr> <tr> <td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>

2010 Prius:


Hybrid System Warranty: 96 months or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. This warranty includes the Battery Control Module, Hybrid Battery, Hybrid Control Module, and the Inverter (with converter).


Note what is NOT included. The computer display panel, wiring, fuses, circuit breakers, electric motors...... LOTS of the electric car components not included.


Powertrain Warranty: 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first. This includes the Engine (cylinder block, head, internal parts, timing gears & gaskets, the timing chain/belt, valve covers, oil pan, oil pump, engine mounts, engine control computer, water pump, fuel pump, seals and gaskets). It also covers the Transaxle, Motor, and Generator (case, all internal parts, transaxle mounts, seals and gaskets). It covers the Front-Wheel Drive System (drive house and internal parts, axle shafts, drive shafts, CVJ, front hub and bearings, seals and gaskets).

Warranty Coverage Information 2010 Toyota Prius | Prius 3



What is NOT covered:

A/C Compressor, Power Brake System, Power Steering System, ABS system, for a start.

Every one of these parts are proprietary Toyota only parts.


Have fun owning one after your 36 month warranty is up.
 
  #17  
Old 01-03-2010, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gearloose1
If you do not believe that EPA testing OVERSTATES hybrid mileage, and UNDERSTATES diesel mileage, then you have a real problem that cannot be cured by exposure to scientific studies.


You probably believe that the Volt is good for the EPA gas mileage too!
Your scientific studies?

In my experiance the EPA mileage ratings for Toyota hybrids is not overstated and the resale value is as good as any other Toyota.

Volkswagen, resale value? Not so much. Oh and I see they have a hybrid coming out soon.

I believe the Volt sucks.
 
  #18  
Old 01-03-2010, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kenpobuck
O.k. I have a question. What do we do with the junk batteries in the hybrids when they go bad? What is the cost of disposal, and replacement? What happens if you are in an accident and those same batteries are ejected from the vehicle and leak. Oh and I know it could never happen but what if those same batteries where to start leaking in the car and letting off dangerous gases and explode (murphy's law may apply here)? I have never seen diesel fuel explode, burn black as hell but not explode. And besides what better smell in the world than diesel, in the can or the exhuast lol?

Toyotas are NiMh batteries.

Some new ones like the Chevy Volt coming on line are using Lithium Ion.

No matter how you cut it, it is a power pack that stores considerable energy (plus the gasoline stored).

The issue of noxious fumes when it burns has not been addressed --- but I certainly don't want to breath it or get near a burning Prius.


Right now, the only way to buy a replacement Pruis battery is from Toyota and this is not about to change as they have monopolized core ingredients and manufacture the batteries in house as a JV.

So the Toyota dealer is taking care of battery disposal, presumably via Toyota.

To my knowledge, there is no serious recycling effort going on of any hybrid batteries (Prius, etc.).


As for cost of replacement, it is not that well known.

I have seen numbers quoted from $3,000 to $5,000 depending on who you ask and how old their Pruis is.

See:
Prius battery life and replacement cost? - Page 5 - PriusChat Forums


Where Toyota really gets you is in other parts, the computers, control modules, AC compressor which is a proprietary Toyota part.

Here are some typical costs:

2004-2009 Toyota Prius: Reliability - Consumer Guide Automotive

Consumer Guide® Estimated Repair Costs

This table lists costs of likely repairs for comparison with other vehicles. The dollar amount includes the cost of the part(s) and labor (based on $50 per hour) for the typical repair without extras or add-ons. Like the pricing information, replacement costs can vary widely depending on region. Expect charges at a new-car dealership to be slightly higher.
<table class="dataTablePlain"><tbody><tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left" valign="top">Item Name</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center" valign="top">Repair Cost</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">A/C Compressor</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center"> $1,750</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">Alternator</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center"> $1,305</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">Automatic Transmission or Transaxle</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center"> $9,350</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">Brakes</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center"> $530</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">Clutch, Pressure Plate, Bearing</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">Constant Velocity Joints</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center"> $1,240</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">Exhaust System</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center"> $800</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">Radiator</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center"> $425</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">Shocks and/or Struts</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center"> $920</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="dataPlain" style="width: 300px;" align="left">Timing Chain or Belt</td> <td class="dataPlain" align="center"> $640</td></tr></tbody></table>
 
  #19  
Old 01-03-2010, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by origcharger
Your scientific studies?

In my experiance the EPA mileage ratings for Toyota hybrids is not overstated and the resale value is as good as any other Toyota.

PRIUS Trouble Spots

Consumer Guide's® Auto Editors have scoured repair bulletins and questioned mechanics to search for commonly occurring problems for a particular vehicle. In some cases we also give possible manufacturer-suggested solutions. In many instances these trouble spots are Technical Service Bulletins posted by the manufacturer, however, we have our own expert looking at additional vehicle problems.

Audio system: The audio system may be noisy when using an external MP3 player requiring installation of an in-line filter. (2006-08)

Brake lights: The parking brake light may stay illuminated after release and a revised pedal assembly was made available. (2004-06)

Check-engine light: The check engine light may come on due to a problem with the coolant flow control valve. (2004-06)

Coolant leak: A coolant leak may develop in the converter/inverter assembly, requiring component replacement, but this part is covered by the 96 month/100,000 mile warranty. (2004-05)

Dashboard lights: The Hybrid System malfunction indicator light may come on even though there are not obvious problems on some early production vehicles, but a special wire must be installed in the high-voltage battery system. (2004)

Dashboard lights: Some early production vehicles may light the malfunction indicator due to an air/fuel ratio sensor problem, but an improved sensor is available. (2005)

Dashboard lights: Using the wrong oil viscosity can trigger the malfunction indicator light and throw a trouble code for "engine does not start." (2004-05)

Fuel gauge: The fuel meter may be inaccurate and the tank may not hold the amount it is supposed to, requiring replacement of the meter and/or the fuel filler pipe. (2004)

Pedals: The brake pedal may squeak and, if bleeding the system does not help, the brake actuator may have to be replaced. (2004-06)
2004-2009 Toyota Prius: Reliability - Consumer Guide Automotive



Toyota Unintended Acceleration:


Runaway Toyota cases ignored - latimes.com

Runaway Toyota cases ignored

Safety investigators dismissed numerous reports of sudden acceleration, then said data were lacking.

More than 1,000 Toyota and Lexus owners have reported since 2001 that their vehicles suddenly accelerated on their own, in many cases slamming into trees, parked cars and brick walls, among other obstacles, a Times review of federal records has found.

The crashes resulted in at least 19 deaths and scores of injuries over the last decade, records show. Federal regulators say that is far more than any other automaker has experienced.



LA Times details Toyota history of concealing safety issues
LA Times details Toyota history of concealing safety issues &mdash; Autoblog



Oh what a feeling!
 
  #20  
Old 01-03-2010, 08:53 PM
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Resale value.
 
  #21  
Old 01-03-2010, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by origcharger
Resale value.

Go buy it! Buy Toyota, and leave us Ford addicts alone!






Disturbing changes at Toyota:


1) Recalls are increasing at a faster pace than ever before in the history of Toyota
2) Three senior managers of Quality Assurance were investigated by police for failing to address known defects

3) Toyota announces more recalls in the United States than Chrysler

4) An employee from a supplier sues Toyota for violation of labor laws

5) Hyundai surpasses Toyota in quality rankings

6) Toyota struggles with domestic sales of the Lexus vehicles

7) A separate and second Toyota labor union has been recently established to kaizen working conditions


Toyota's breakneck pace of expansion over the past 10 years is resulting in a surge in both design and manufacturing defects now surfacing as recalls. This is simply due to managers, engineers, supervisors and workers being stretched too thin both at Toyota and the supply base, according to the article.
The article cites revealing statistics from Japan's domestic Ministry of Transportation:
In the year 2001:
Toyota: market share = 42.1% share of recalls = 1.4%
Nissan: market share = 17.9% share of recalls = 11.9%
Honda: market share = 14.9% share of recalls = 21.9%
In the year 2005:
Toyota: market share = 44.0% share of recalls = 34%
Nissan: market share = 18.4% share of recalls = 3.5%
Honda: market share = 11.8% share of recalls = 3.6%


According to Toyota supplier sources the Toyo Keizai article declines to name, among the trends mentioned:


At the automobile manufacturer:

- The number of investigations into non-conforming quality has doubled in the past five years

- One third of the defects are related to manufacturing, and production processes in particular

- Even small process flaws are resulting in recalls

- Suppliers are increasingly evaluated first on quality


At the parts manufacturer:

- Hiring of supervisors and workers is not keeping up with production growth, resulting in greater strain on workers

- Managers and supervisors have an increases span of supervision

- Support to tier 2 and tier 3 suppliers is lacking

- Basic lack of inspection resulting in missed visual checks


What's going on? The commonization of parts has leader to the quantity of each recall being larger, since a bad part now must be recalled from a wider range of vehicles. The overburden on the fatigued factory floor, as well as strain on engineers and designers is leading to rising defects.



Another cause, according to the article who sites an automotive engineer:


"Education in the use of CAD (Computer Aided Design) is lacking at Japanese universities. Therefore, the creation of the CAD diagrams is outsourced. The designer is not the same person who creates the CAD diagram. Because of this, the designer can miss drawing errors. These errors were previously caught be experienced veteran engineers. However, as the number of these skilled workers becomes thinner, the errors are beginning to show."

The Toyo Keizai article cites a Toyota group company employee who says that there is now a chronic shortage of people at Toyota.



The number of regular employees at Toyota has remained stable while the number of temporary laborers has double or even tripled, according to the article. The implied result of temporary workers playing a larger role in manufacturing is the larger number of quality problems and recalls.


The lights on the Toyota Technical Center building are on past 10PM, even at midnight on some days. There is no second shift of engineers, they are simply putting in very long hours. Toyo Keizai interviewed some young workers from a Toyota supplier "If we stay on this path, quality problems will increase and so will the lawsuits" and "If they keep working people this hard, eventually no one will want to work here."


Can anything stop Toyota's reckless push to expand? At an executive management planning meeting on the theme of "Global Master Plan" in January of 2006, executives presented plans to build new factories in North America, China and elsewhere. Honorary Chairman Shoichiro Toyoda spoke out:


"When did Toyota get to be a company like this? There is no reason to hurry. We need to think deeply and act quickly once we decide. That is the Toyota way."


According to the article this created a chill among the senior leaders present and many of the plans for new factories were put on hold.
There is a three-page insert in the article revealing for the first time the details of over 50 of the recalls based on research by Toyo Keizai.



The list includes many design errors of software, parts configuration, raw material properties and a variety of surprising manufacturing errors from insufficient nut torque, missing fasteners, damage during assembly, and mis-assembly. I don't think this is what former Toyota Chairman Hiroshi Okuda meant last year when he said Toyota should give General Motors some breathing room.
 
  #22  
Old 01-03-2010, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by origcharger
Your scientific studies?

Toyota Prius Recall List


Recall ID # 09V388000 - VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL
<table id="closed_27154" class="bg_recall_ovrCntr" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <td class="bg_recall_titlecell">Recall Date:</td> <td>OCT 05, 2009</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="bg_recall_titlecell">Component:</td> <td>VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="bg_recall_titlecell">Model Affected:</td> <td>PRIUS</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="bg_recall_titlecell">Units Affected:</td> <td> 4260319 Recall Details </td></tr></tbody></table>


This is the same defect that killed a family of 4 in California.
 
  #23  
Old 01-04-2010, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by gearloose1
Go buy it! Buy Toyota, and leave us Ford addicts alone!


Ford has hybrids too
 
  #24  
Old 01-04-2010, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by origcharger
Ford has hybrids too

Go buy it!!!!
 
  #25  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gearloose1
Go buy it!!!!
But what about the Volkswagen diesel you were recommending?
 
  #26  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by origcharger
But what about the Volkswagen diesel you were recommending?

I am not recommending anything.

Go buy a Toyota Prius!

You would love it!

Toyota designed it just for you people.
 
  #27  
Old 01-04-2010, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gearloose1
I am not recommending anything.

Go buy a Toyota Prius!

You would love it!

Toyota designed it just for you people.

Thank you for the affirmation!
And as a taxpayer, thank you, as we already bought one during the CFC program.
 
  #28  
Old 01-04-2010, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by origcharger
Thank you for the affirmation!
And as a taxpayer, thank you, as we already bought one during the CFC program.

I am sure you qualified for that program!!!!!
 
  #29  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:00 PM
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Golf carts

"Thank you for the affirmation!
And as a taxpayer, thank you, as we already bought one during the CFC program."


I'd like to see a battery operated piece of C!@P with 250,000 miles. I especially like the plush comfort.

 
  #30  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by origcharger
Resale value.

Someone must sell used Prius for a living. Nice!
 


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