Hullo all. I brought my '55 home and was having fun ordering parts and pieces to do the necessary things to it. I'd gotten it to turn over and run a little, although only at an idle, so figured it was time to clean it up, change hoses and all that good stuff.

Yeah, well, so with parts on order, I decided to drain the oil. Some of you can guess what I found.

Yup, you guessed it, chocolate milk. Uuuugh. Ok, so off come the intake, pushrod cover and valve covers. Chocolate milk and a TON of gunk.

Ok, so this gets us to the point of the post. Anyone rebuilt a 239 Y-block? I mean, I'm assuming the following: new lifters, new pushrods, valve job, valve guides, valve seals, bore out 30 over with new pistons. Is there a source for this stuff? I don't see much at LMC.

Am I barking up the wrong tree? Less money for a 272 or something?

Do I really have to bore it out? Is the metal that soft that a quick run-through with a cylinder hone and new rings isn't enough?

Thoughts? I'm concerned about switching out the motor because then we move down the path of tranny, drive train and all that other stuff that I just can't afford right now.

 

Here ya go, nathan. It's a good place to start. FORD Y Google "Ford Y-block engine parts" I sold a freshly rebuilt 239 Y last summer for 750$ (It was given to me)

 

You won't know until you pull the heads and see where the water came from, and how much damage it did to the cylinders. If the block is cracked, go no further. If it was a head gasket leak, it depends how bad the cylinders are.

Any time you have more than say 0.010" taper in the cylinders, you'll want to bore it if you plan to keep it. It doesn't make sense to put new standard pistons in tapered bores, the rings won't last.

 

This may sound newbie, but when I pull the heads - what am I looking for? How will I know "where the water is coming from"? What will I be looking for on the cylinders?

 

How long have you had it? It is possible (I hope) that if it has been sitting for a long time with no oil changes that this might just be condensation and the gunk (tm) starting to melt from being warmed up. Why not wash / scoop out what you can, change the oil and filter, and run it, and see, not much to lose.

 

Several things. If one or more cylinders are filled with water, points to a head gasket (especially two adjacent cylinders). (try to not get water into the cylinders while pulling the head, so you can tell if it was already there or not) You need to assess how much damage the water has done to the cylinder walls, if it is there.

If there is no water in the cylinders, that points to a cracked block. You will need to pressurize the cooling system to tell where the problem lies, so you'd likely end up having the block vatted after disassembly, if it is all covered with muck, just so you can look for cracks (they are likely pretty obvious if there's that much water in the pan).

As I recall, Y-blocks have a water passage in the intake that connects the two heads? That is a likely source of the water too, so check the gasket and manifold/head surfaces for signs of leaking (cut across the gasket, scouring appearance, etc.)

 

You'll want to disassemble it very carefully, inspecting all the gaskets and parts as you go. Look for anything out of the ordinary. One clean piston and 7 carbon coated ones point to a blown head gasket, leaking water into that cylinder. Look closely at the gaskets as you take things apart. Look for distorted passage holes, soggy material, burnt spots, etc. Take pictures of anything suspect and post them here. We'll give you plenty of opinions, as we all have at least one. ;-)

It sounds like you haven't had it long enough to know if it has an overheating problem. That, too, is a sign of a bad head gasket. Cracks in heads or blocks are tougher to see sometimes. You usually find them between passage holes or cylinders. Sometimes between valves in the combustion chamber. Get out the big magnifying glass and have a good look. Cracks are more likely to fill the crankcase with water and make that nasty chocolate soup. Good luck, and be sure to let us know what you find.

You can search Google Images for cracked block, cracked head, and blown head gasket and see several examples, some are pretty extreme, though.

 

Ok I'm going to approach the comments from the other members from a different direction and possibly emphisize each.

First, you seem a little anxious - slow down. The best way to fix a problem is to carefully analize what it is. Don't assume it's going to take "X" to fix until you know it's "Y" that is broken

In this case, you have coolant in your oil. So, there are one of two choices - either you have a gasket of some sort leaking - which is a fairly inexpensive fix, or you have a cracked block which is complete rebuild and possibly a new engine depending on where the crack is.

The most likely offender in a gasket leak is the head gasket - especially if the truck has been sitting, or the coolant mixture quality is bad (ie all water little coolant).

If the head gasket is bad you should be able to tell with a compression check before you disassemble. Chances are the cylinders on both sides of the bad head gasket will show low compression or compression that fades rapidly. In that case remove the head and inspect the area between the cylinders and the old gasket itself.

Check the spark plugs for moisture!

This could also be a cracked head around a cooling jacket.

Try that first then look for more in the engine block. Point is run a compression check for preliminary indicators and thendis assemble the engine heads one step at a time slowly and deliberately. if yo take yor time the leak (if it is not a cracked block) will be obvious.

Cracked block - it's time to rebuild!

Bad hed gaskets on trucks that have been sitting are not at all unusual!

 

for one i am glad to see someone not do the so common oh well lets pull it and put a newer driveline in it . julie and the rest nailed it . diagnose the problem before you go crazy . things including old engines , sitting around for long periods of time , will collect moisture , period , no matter how well it's sealed up . so it may not have an issue at all . you don't know just yet . lastly just a word on the 239 . i'm not saying it's not a d-m- good engine , just that the guy's n gals here have posted on these before and if memory serves me , while it is a y block it has a lot of one off parts specific to it . if it is bad just wander around the boneyards , farms { you wouldnt believe how many old y powered fords are still sitting around or being used on them ! } and alleyways for donors . don't trust anyones rebuilts aka jasper or a parts house , as they are usually not the greatest . buying one from a private individual like jim is your best bet as they take the time and care to make sure it's right !i know where theres a truck here with a good running 292 used by a tree service that he'd sell cheaply i think as it keeps having carb issues . i had a 292 given to me for a temp replacement by a friend on here , for my flatty as i thought it had developed issues , and i still have it sitting around and looking for a home for it and an excuse to start yet another project i don't have time for ...........by the way stu if ya read this did you get down to the place i found that bonus built fire truck and take a look at it ??? i'm hoping too soon . i got room for something else , just don't let the wife know .......... LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nathan don't fret the tranny and stuff if you do have to do a swap . these old pita's interchange parts like crazy . the 4 speed behind my flatty is from a y powered machine , the two piece driveshaft i'm using is from a 74 long bed { cut to fit } . don't fret it ! it'll all be good !!

 

[quote=55 f350;8109394], just don't let the wife know .......... LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! quote]

Ya know, extorsion is such an ugly word.

I'd prefer to just give you my e-mail address for regular pay pal deposits and call it a consulting fee!

 

Great comments - great feed back! Thanks!

So, a little background. I've had the truck for about a month now. The PO swore it ran, although it smoked when first started and then stopped after warming up. Now, he had it for 10 years - doubt he put many miles on it. He was having a friend work on it here and there and then there was some sort of falling out between them, he went to pick the truck up and couldn't get it to start. The guy had switched the plug wires around, knowing that the PO would have no idea how to fix it on his own. The PO is a non-internet kind so finding out firing order and things like that were a reach. Plus, this was just a little hobby. His son had purchased the truck for him and after 10 years he'd pretty much lost interest.

The truck has been sitting. The pushrod cover gasket is shot. I can't attest to what happened previously, but when I got the truck it had nice clean looking coolant in it. I was able to dork around with it enough to get it to fire up, but not much more than an idle. So, with "life" in the motor, I moved to the next phase of gutting the inside, pulling the heater, which meant draining the coolant - hence the parts ordered for hoses, thermostat, etc.

I do have a compression gauge and am still able to turn the motor over so will tackle that tonight. For clarity - keep all spark plugs in, pull one, compression test, and replace plug and move to the next one, right?

I'll get some pictures posted. My home PC is down right now so working from my work laptop and have to figure out how to get the pictures onto it for upload.

Julie - thanks for the "slow down". Sometimes I get a little excited. LOL!

I'm surprised that I haven't gotten any crap about "didn't you check the oil before you bought it??". Funny thing is that I did - dip stick came out with pretty clean oil on it. Now that I've turned it over a few times is when I noticed it. Actually, a friend gave me a dipstick (top of mine is broken off) and it was when I pulled it out to check the length that I first noticed the infamous chocolate milk. However, wipe it off, put it back in and pull it out - clean oil. So initially I thought it might have been due to antifreeze seeping into the pushrod cover when I was taking the gooseneck off and had a little spillage. However, there is WAY more fluid in there than that little bit and the top of the rocker arms are rusted (not pitted, but sludgy-rusty).

BTW, what should the compression be? I haven't found a reference to that yet. I'll keep you posted on what I find tonight after I compression test and pull the heads.... carefully and taking pictures! :-)

 

No, I don’t think so, hard on the starter and it needs to spin as fast as possible.

The water level can’t get up to the rocker arms, so where did the rust come from, condensation.

From a poor memory around 100 psi but it is the variation or difference that is critical.

Getting ahead of yourself again, but if that’s what rows your boat rip her apart, we will all help you. (Painlessly from cyberspace)

 

Old F1 - slow me down please! :-) Suggestions? So, condensation is probably the cause of the rust. I'll buy that. Compression test - to get a feel for the way things are. Next?

 

Depends on the compression test results! Blow up that bridge when you get there.

This series of engine had a lousy crankcase ventilation system, no pcv valve etc, and so was susceptible to condensation if not run warm/hot to “burn” off the moisture.

Slow down! If the compression is OK try just changing the oil and filter for now, refill with plain water for the test (drain after) as antifreeze is hard on the bearings. See if it uses water or the oil changes color.

Part two: Did it overheat when you idled it? If you are looking for an internal coolant leak (crack etc) the best way to do it is with what is called “a cylinder leak down test” but that’s just technical yap for putting compressed air into each cylinder with the valves closed and rad cap off and seeing if coolant comes out somewhere, if its cracked or a head gasket in most cases the rad will do a impersonation of “old faithfull”. Thinking about it, if it is cracked or blown head gasket most engines leak into the compression chamber and gets burnt (white smoke) when running, or pushes water out and overheats, for water to leak into the oil it would have to be into one of the oiling passages or lifter gallery. Didn’t I have this discussion a year ago, hum, starting to repeat myself?

 

It didn't overheat when I idled it but then again, only ran it for 3-5 minutes tops.

So, clean out as much goop as possible, drain the oil, get the coolant hooked back up and get it to idle again. Run it for a while, check oil/water. If no significant color change then we have a mystery about where the water came from, but it's not the head gasket or a crack - did I get that right?

Color change - then the head gasket is blown or there is a crack somewhere, the leak-down test will show it (most of the time). So, if no old faithful, not one of those two. If color change, no point in doing the leak-down is there? Time to inspect the head gasket? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume there isn't a good way to determine which is the issue - gasket or crack?

There wasn't any smoke in the exhaust while it was running. Only some blow-by out of the oil filler. It wasn't rolling out but significant enough to notice.

Where are the oiling passages - in the block? Or the heads or both? The lifter gallery - by this you mean leaking in around the pushrod gasket? That is a horrible design - two bolts to hold that cover on and basically a straight shot for anything that got in there to drop right down into the bottom end.