What would it take to get a Hydrogen suppliment system working on a 7.3L PSD?

I've heard that you want to be able to have it off when idling becuase of some sort of massive explosion possibility. LOL.

If you could get one working what kind of benefits could you see?

Oh and by working I mean a system that doesn't really decrease an engine's reliability.

 

I had looked into that, but since I'm putting an intercooler in, I'm concerned about the possible production of Hydrochloric acid in the IC. Without that, I'd probably have done it already. smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf

 

How would you get Hydrochloric acid? There is no chlorine to form the acid. I almost started building a kit awhile back when I read about a stock '02 PSD with a hydrogen kit that easily out ran a modded dmax. But then they started saying to do it properly you'd have to change when the valves open and close. So I just forgot about.

 

i have a buddy that was working on hydrogen generators for his SD psd awhile back when he still had the SD. they were testing it on a different truck and he couldn't get it to work right so he quit on it. he had the system generating the hydro and injecting it, but something wasn't quite right that they couldn't figure out. i will have to ask him about it. i haven't read anything about having to change when the valves open/close. if you change that your engine just will not run right!! haha.

with hydrogen you will see a pretty good increase in either mileage or power depending on how you hook it up. you can do it so you inject it like nitrous and get a fair power gain from it or you can run it like some ppl use propane and use it in very very tiny increments while driving to increase mileage significantly. Now, i'm not sure if the hydro will pre ignite like the propane will. i know propane ignites before the diesel and will screw some stuff up, but i'm not sure if the hydro would do that. i know i will NEVER use propane because it seems it screws up a lot of ppls engines

 

I have never heard of the Hydrogen injection. It sounds like it works like Nitrous. Is that correct?

 

From what I know of chemistry I wouldnt think about hydrogen youd be better with water meth injction. Hydrogen has a very low flashpoint similar or lower than ether which we all know can screw up PSDs due to pre ignition. That and youd have to inject it in gas form like nitrous and the heat generated during compression is extremely like 1500* and check this out.
Hydrogen gas (dihydrogen[10]) is highly flammable and will burn in air at a very wide range of concentrations between 4% and 75% by volume.[11] The enthalpy of combustion for hydrogen is −286 kJ/mol:[12]

2 H2(g) + O2(g) → 2 H2O(l) + 572 kJ (286 kJ/mol)[note 1]
Hydrogen gas forms explosive mixtures with air in the concentration range 4-74% (volume per cent of hydrogen in air) and with chlorine in the range 5-95%. The mixtures spontaneously detonate by spark, heat or sunlight. The hydrogen autoignition temperature, the temperature of spontaneous ignition in air, is 500 °C (932 °F).[13] Pure hydrogen-oxygen flames emit ultraviolet light and are nearly invisible to the naked eye, as illustrated by the faint plume of the Space Shuttle main engine compared to the highly visible plume of a Space Shuttle Solid Rocket Booster. The detection of a burning hydrogen leak may require a flame detector; such leaks can be very dangerous. The explosion of the Hindenburg airship was an infamous example of hydrogen combustion; the cause is debated, but the visible flames were the result of combustible materials in the ship's skin.[14] Because hydrogen is buoyant in air, hydrogen flames tend to ascend rapidly and cause less damage than hydrocarbon fires. Two-thirds of the Hindenburg passengers survived the fire, and many deaths were instead the result of falls or burning diesel fuel.[15]

H2 reacts with every oxidizing element. Hydrogen can react spontaneously and violently at room temperature with chlorine and fluorine to form the corresponding hydrogen halides, hydrogen chloride and hydrogen fluoride, which are also potentially dangerous acids.[16]

Therefore if in the incorrect mix it the gas can beignited by sunlight, Im pretty sure the cylinder temps would be too much. And to run in the liquid form 1. It'd probably pretty hard to get a hold of without being listed as a terrosist, 2. the extreme cold of the liquid would make it gel the fuel you be mixing it with. 3. the gas will react with every oxidizer known to create various compunds and there is enough chlorine in standard air to create hydrocloric acid varpors and eventually eat evrything in your engine.

The advantages of water meth injection is the water cools cylinder temps and egt as well as breaks down to the melecurlar level where the hydrogen in the water becomes flammable as well as oxidized by the oxygen similar to nitrous, and can be injected in the ari intake just like nitrous without damage to the engine or ignition. Plus its a proven technology thats been in use since before world war II therfore much less expensive if your wrong.

 

And Oversize comes in again with the big explanation!!! good info there Oversize!!!!

 

Sounds like powerful stuff. Thanks for the info oversize.

 

I'm well aware of the capabilities of hydrogen gas and how much energy can be gained from utilizing it. I didn't know how hot it burned though. I was thinking that you could let the hydrogen enter the cylingers via air intake in small quantities. This way it wouldn't raise the EGT's as high as if you were running straight H2. I haven't ran any numbers yet. So far this is very good info. Please keep it coming.

 

WOW the water/methanol system looks great. Anyone had any real success stories with it on an old (high mileage) engine?

 

One of the guys I work with just installed a hydrogen generating system in his '02 duramax. I can't imagine that this contraption produces the amounts of hydrogen per volume to be as dangerous as Oversize mentioned. My co-worker is running his first tank of fuel with it, so I'll keep everyone informed with what he finds. No drastic change so far. I seem to remember those nutts on Mythbusters doing a show on this with a gasser and I think the results were marginal at best. I just don't remember.

Fyrbrd

 

There are definitely tricks to running HHO in a regular motor. For the PSD, being computer controlled, I would say at a minimum you would need a tuner in the seat of your truck to live tune it on a dyno, with HHO on. That's the only way to get any benefit, to alter timing, the fuel tables, etc accurately. Then, save that tune for when the HHO is on as the truck will run horribly with that tune and HHO off. Otherwise, w/o the live tunes, your just pumping dirty air into the motor you will never see a benefit from.
This is why I dropped the project over a year and half ago.

I have made my own HHO generators, and let me tell you it takes a LOT of HHO to make a difference in a larger volume motor like a 7.3l PSD.

Heck, it takes a LOT of HHO to just run a 5 hp B&S!

I saw that Mythbusters and they used a tank of compressed Hydrogen. They f'ed up and did it wrong. They can for sure, 100% run that motor on Hydrogen, they just didn't know how to do it correctly.

ANY motor can run 100% on Hydrogen, if it's hooked up properly.

 

Water/meth is simple and great benefits from everything I've read.

And yes. Gas's don't work the same as fuel.
So a LOT would be required.


MythBusters is a great show.
But some of the things they DO do wrong. Some of the tests they do fail simply because of the way they do them. like the bullet underwater test.
You rarely are shooting the water from 2 feet away.
They try to do everything safely with the knowledge they have. Which is fine.
That's why they had to start doing "fix it" sorta episodes where people write in how to do the steps correctly to get the result.

Remember, with mythbusters, they are "special effects masters"
They are not Mechanics. =)

As far as I know, Jim is right, any engine can run on hydrogen.
I don't know about 2 cycle motor's though.

Lets all go get 2cycle diesels and start the FTE 2cycle brigade....

 

Yeah i wouldn't be producing a large volume. I guess my goal was reliability and 25 mpg.
I have heard of a guy that made a storage tank, and mass dumped it for insane power.
I wouldn't be doing that, especially for a street truck.

 

Why the world would you want to own a Detroit Diesel? (Yes Detroit makes/made 2 cycle diesels, learned all about them, they suck) But Hydrogen in with a Diesel engine would require the timing be adjusted do the the fact its a gas (I assume were talking Hydregon Gas) and gas ignites before a liquid. So you have to have the timing adjusted so the intake valve closes earlier (As to not make explosion in the intake system). I do not know, but that is what I understand from my schooling. To be safe, don't mess with it let the pro's do it for you. Also, and Talyn said, water/meth is good. I been haning around with new people, and I know a guy who on his personal Pete with a CAT, has a Pittsburg Electronics Performance Box, Water/Meth injection, and Turbos that are just a a few MM bigger than stock, and he can probably out run most of us guys on the board. So there we go. Just be safe, and let us know how it goes.