hopefully I can make it next time.

 

Yup...where are the results? Some of us were really looking forward to this.

 

Sorry it took me awhile to post this, had stuff to take care of as soon as I got home.

This morning, the three of us met up in Moster-4(Mike)'s home town of Millersburg, OH. I eat hybrids(Matt) came down from Cleveland, and I came up from the Columbus area. Not quite the perfect lineup for the test, but after all this is the real world instead of a magazine article!

The test trailer in this case was my 8.5' x 24' V-nose enclosed car hauler. Empty weight is somewhere around 3,500 lbs. For weight I borrowed my mother-in-law's 2003 Isuzu Ascender SUV to come along for the ride. Best guess for curb weight is somewhere around 5,000 lbs. I also borrowed my parents' 500 lb(estimated!) lawn mower, which went in the nose of the trailer. Add 300 lbs of miscellaneous junk, we have a total estimated weight of around 9,300 lbs. We used this trailer, along with my weight distributing kit on each truck for the test.

Matt(i eat hybrids) came with his 2007 F150. It's a 4x4 Supercab XLT with the 5.4L V8 and 3.55 rear axle ratio. This truck uses the 4R75E 4-speed automatic transmission. The 3.55s were a bit of a disadvantage, but he's around a thousand pounds less than a comparable SD, so we figured it would be a pretty good substitute. Has 53,000 miles on it.



Mike(Monster-4) had his 2001 F250. Extended cab, Lariat, 4x4, with a 3.73 rear axle ratio, and the 4R100 automatic transmisison. He also was tuned with a 5-star towing tune, as mentioned above. He also recently put a lot of work into his suspension and steering, and you could tell it really paid off. His aftermarket steering box felt very precise to me, and I was really impressed how this truck drove with over 100,000 miles on it.

I forgot to get a good picture of this truck on level ground, so this will have to work...



And I came with my 2008 F250. This was an XLT, 4x4, crew cab, 3.73 rear axle, 6.4L PSD truck with the 5R110 automatic. Truck is bone stock with just over 4,000 miles on the odometer.



Once we met, we figured we would use Matt's F150 first, followed by Mike's V10 F250, and finish off with my PSD F250.

For the test route, Mike had a great circuit consisting of two loops. These included some decent hills and curves. Nothing was particularly long, the longest hill was probably less than a mile, but it was plenty to see the strengths and weaknesses of each truck. The final act of brutality we forced on these trucks was the steepest, longest grade Mike knew of in the area, known as Buffalo hill. We're not sure the exact grade, but the general consensus was that it was about a 15 percent grade, somewhere around a mile long. We drove each truck partway up the hill to the steepest point, and stopped. We took the chance for a photo op, then threw them in drive and mashed the pedal, trying to see how fast and how well each truck would start between 15-18K GCVW on that kind of hill.

So Mike, Matt, my wife, and I piled in Matt's F150 and headed out.



It was immediately apparent that the truck had a tough time with this much weight. 4 people in the cab in addition to 9,300 lbs of trailer really pushed this truck hard, but it did a really great job. Acceleration seemed sluggish, but not once did it show any signs of trouble with this considerable load. I felt that the biggest weak point in this setup was the 4-speed automatic, which sometimes had a tough time keeping the engine where it wanted to be, but overall it did a fine job. We were unable to monitor temperatures with my ScanGauge, as for some reason he didn't seem to have power going to his OBD port, but all appeared well throughout the test.

During one particular hill that was roughly a 6-8 percent grade and about 3/4ths of a mile long, the truck started the hill in 3rd gear at 60 MPH and finished in 2nd gear at 45 MPH. Next came the hill start test...







When we first came to this, I was surprised Matt agreed to it. Being overloaded by at least 1,000 lbs, I honestly had my doubts as to whether or not his truck would be able to get going on such a hill. To our surprise, his 5.4L engine was able to slowly gain headway, and nearly top out 1st gear at 25 MPH for the majority of the grade. Upshifting was out of the question, but it was able to start over 15,000 lbs on that kind of grade and move it upwards at a respectable pace. I was truly impressed by how well it did. We then took it back to the lot, swapped trucks, and ate lunch.

Afterward, we went out in Mike's V10 F250.



This truck had a very noticeable increase in power over Matt's F150. Thanks to his 5-star, 93 octane towing tune, the transmission behaved very gracefully throughout the test. It held gears and did not upshift unless the grade could be pulled in the next gear. During the hill mentioned earlier, we hit the hill going nearly 60 MPH and finished it at a very respectable 50 MPH. I was particularly impressed by the precise handling of this 8-year-old truck, and it handled the trailer great. The two things that I were not impressed with were the stock towing side mirrors, and the 4R100 transmission. The mirrors are the same ones we see in nearly every '99 and up SD truck, and I was surprised how small that convex mirror really was. Despite the great towing tune, the transmission had a tough time sometimes getting the engine in the best RPM range. Otherwise, it handled great.



During the hill start test, it took off with a substantial increase in power. I was shocked when it shifted to second before 3,500 RPMs, but it had plenty of power in 2nd gear to continue accelerating up the hill. I believe we were able to hit around 40 MPH by the top of the hill, which was quite a surprise. The engine temp didn't get above 205 degrees throughout the climb, and we were unable to monitor transmission temps this time, as I forgot to program my ScanGauge to read the tranny temp in an older gas truck.



We then came back and hooked up my '08 F250 to the trailer. There was a very substantial increase in power throughout the RPM range, and Matt commented that it was easy to forget it was there. Under full throttle, the difference between my PSD and Mike's V10 narrowed considerably. The big difference seemed to be the ability of the 6.4 to belt out power at lower RPMs, and handle most hills without downshifting as much. Also, the 5R110 transmission, with the tow/haul mode, seemed to really shine. It would lock the torque converter in 4th and 5th gear, and was able to pull all but the steepest hills in 4th gear at 2200 RPMs at 60 MPH. Throughout normal driving, I never got the impression that it did much that the V10 couldn't, but it certainly did it with much less drama.



From past experience, I knew full throttle starts with a trailer would most likely spin the tires, so I locked the hubs and put it in 4HI for the hill start. I power braked until I hit 10 PSI of boost, then let it fly. The truck surged forward upon the initial launch far faster than either gas truck, but there wasn't a real big increase in power before the tranny shifted at 3,200 RPMs. The torque converter seemed to be the weakest link, as it shuddered constantly when the engine was at full throttle above 2,500 RPMs. The engine temperature peaked out at 220 degrees, and the transmission peaked at around 200 degrees, compared to the 198(engine) and 170(tranny) they normally are at. The "idiot light" gauges never moved a hair, even though both temperatures jumped over 20 degrees. The steering was squirrelly under full throttle in 4HI, but otherwise did a great job. I backed off around 50 up the hill, as that was the fastest I felt comfortable negotiating the curves mid-way up the hill.

In conclusion, I think all 3 trucks did very well here. Matt's 5.4L F150 wasn't going anywhere fast with that trailer, but it did a great job handling everything we threw at it. For occasional heavy towing, I think the F150 does a great job. Even in a Super Duty, the 5.4L engine proved willing to move lots of weight up even the steepest hills we could find, even if it didn't set any speed records doing it.

Mike's V10 did considerably better than the F150, but it really seemed to rev to get decent acceleration under most conditions. If it had the more modern 5-speed transmission or the 3V heads I think it would have really given my truck some tough competition up that hill. Even so, it did a commendable job. I'd take this setup anywhere with that kind of weight.

My truck has impressed me since I first put some weight behind it. There's not a huge difference between 2200 RPM and 3,000 RPM, as it handily moves up the hill in the higher gears at highway speeds without much need for downshifting. It certainly felt less stressed than either of the two gas engines, but when pushed the V10 came pretty close.

I would like to thank Monster-4 and i eat hybrids for coming out and abusing their trucks with me. I really had a great time and I hope we get the chance to do this again!

 

Maybe next time you can get a 3v V10 to beat on.
How fast do you think your truck could have gone with out the curves to slow down for?

 

Great job guys!!! Nothing better than real world testing with every day personal use trucks. I repped all three of you....fine job!!

 

To be honest, I don't know how fast I could have gone without the curves. It certainly would have gone a lot faster, but I think Mike's F250 might have pulled it in 3rd if it had the room to upshift and pull for a bit.

Gearing was also a bit of a disadvantage, as if Matt had a gear somewhere between 2nd and 3rd, I think it would be safe to say he could have gone a considerable amount faster, too.

On edit:

I would REALLY have liked to weigh the trailer before or after the tests we did. Unfortunately I didn't have the time to find a scale, as there were none along my route to and from Millersburg.

 

haha, I know what a set of 3.73 and the 4R100 is like, he had no chance to show what a V10 can do. I hate my gears and trany, with a load it takes forever to get up to 35 from a stop, but starts really going when I get it there.

 

Did each person drive all of the trucks?

I think it is cool that 3 people from this website with 3 different trucks and engine combos got together to have a real world test. I am glad to hear that emotions did not try to control the event. It sounds like it was a lot of fun. I am sure this has added to the memories of each of your trucks. I wish I could have been there.

 

For the most part. I think Matt's the only one who drove his F150, but I think that was largely due to time. By the time Matt and I had the route figured out we were back to town to switch out. Mike had to leave by 4:00, so we had to switch trucks and move on from there.

All 3 of us drove the two SDs, though. We had a blast! I think quite a bit of what made it so much fun was the easy going nature of it all. We got together for a fun comparison, not as a slugfest to see who's truck is better. It was LOTS of fun to compare in that environment!

 

Nice write-up Tom! I'll add a few notes. The first hill (the 6-8 precent grade called Mast Hill) and I was able to maintain 55 at the top. Also my truck is a 2000.

Now onto my comments. I have to say the 6.4 PSD was awsome to drive! It really did impress me in its overall power output even though it was in regen most of the time. Even at 1400 lbs heavier than mine it was noticably quicker. You just had to mash the pedal and it goes. I would have loved to test with a 3V V10 and compared them back to back (hint, hint for you other guys). Also another comment, the 2008+ tow mirrors...simply awsome!

Matt's 3V 5.4 F150 didn't do to bad at all. It did get pushed around a bit more by the trailer but Tom's WD setup kept everything in check. And it was also down on power to the ground (probably due more to the 3.55 than anything) compared to my older 2V V10 but it DID do the job. It was a true testament to Ford engineering that even a 1/2 ton was able to move that kind of weight around.

I was also a little proud of my older truck going up against the newer ones. I was just glad Tom and Matt didn't find it an old sloppy dog even though my rear calipers are completely hung up and were smoking by the end of its test. Oh well one more thing to spend money on. I wish I had more time for testing but I had a Brown's game to watch and after watching that mess I wish I would have kept driving around with Tom and Matt.

This test wasn't scientific but it was for sure real world and I think everyone can agree it was a good time. Now we need more trucks and more trailers and we'll do this all again!

 

AWESOME writeup Crazy001, thank you for taking the time! Thanks to all three of you for making this happen.

I was laughing out loud when you were talking about your miscellaneous ballast. You should have snapped a picture of your M.I.L.'s face when you asked her to borrow her SUV. Or, I dunno, maybe she's used to you asking for these types of things. The lawnmower was a nice touch, too.

 

Thanks for the correction! At least I was close...

I completely agree. I'm STILL surprised Matt let us put his truck through that big hill like that. It never did anything fast with that kind of weight, but it did everything we asked of it. Next time we need video!

Not sure how we could have figured it an old sloppy dog with the work you put into it. I was really impressed with how it drove! Never pulled, steering was very precise. No rattles, squeaks, noises, or shudders throughout the entire test. Your transmission surprised me, as with that tow tune I think it did better than a stock 4R100 would have.


True it wasn't scientific, but we were able to prove a few things...

1. The 5.4L engine may not get you over the hill the fastest, but it will get you there.
2. When we drove mine around, the powerbraked 4HI launch as well as Matt's driving proved that you can NOT tear the hitch off the back of the truck. You can, however, make the torque converter shudder in submisson!
3. We proved that a good towing tune helps an older transmission immensely. It may not be able to overcome the lousy 1st gear, or the huge gap between gears but it made the transmission handle a heavy tow better than any other factory tranny I've ever seen.

To be honest, I'm feeling like I should have weighed the trailer before we did this. I'm pretty confident that my weights were very close, but there's nothing like a certified scale ticket to prove the validity of our tests.

 

It was funny, because I was looking for 6,000 lbs of SOMETHING to throw back there. The car was an easy one to come up with, since the trailer's set up to haul cars. I just needed a heavier one than my wife's CR-V!

And believe it or not, my MIL is more used to strange requests like that than most. I've used my truck and trailer before to do stuff like this for the simple reason that I could and I wanted to. In this case, she had my wife's car to drive around, and I promised her we wouldn't break it. I just wish I had either a heavier car, a bigger lawnmower, or something else to come up with a full 10,000 lbs.

If I have the time, I'll set up the trailer like we had it yesterday and drag it down to the truck stop for a real weight. If I do, I'll scan and post the weight ticket.

 

VERY cool! a Big thumbs-up to all involved!

Now imagine what a 3-valve with the TorqShift could do?

 

You did way better than me at remembering what happened. I would have gotten everything mixed up. One again awsome job!