Not trying to irratate or bash you so please don't take it that way. Honestly I'm one of those customers that must over educate myslef on something before I buy it, and I'm a basic mechanic not like the most of you. Fuel filters, air filters, brakes, oil changes I've done a lot of and if i have a manual i can do some in depth things, nothing major, like I wouldn't touch a tranny or engine overhaul, just dont have enought experience and time, I save that for the pros. So anyway I'm being extreme about this sale because I cherish my truck and if something breaks I'm not gonna blame anyone because I feel I made an educated decision. As far as the private section I'd leave it open, just so people can see what is really going on with the spartan chiped trucks, and educate themselves. I'm not going to call you and ask stuff thats what this forums for.

I'm really having a hard time deciding what tunes I want to run. I hear so many, "hey forget what you hear and tow and drive everyday with the 275 tune I do it and havent had one problem and I've had it on for 10,000 miles" (and on a diesel 10k aint S*&%). I then hear guys saying "hey the tranny broke but its my fault I was towing on a RACE tune and should of known better". So in all honesty I would like to see how many of the big tuned guys are making serious miles on their trucks with no big problems or are the "race" tunes not to be messed with except for on the track. I just hear a lot of the same 6 or 7 same people on diffrent sites just pumping the race tunes up sooo high with no problems. But then there is a crowd of random people i dont see much of anywhere on all these powerstroke sites claiming tranny problems while running race tunes, I cant say that is a certain thing though in SPARTANS defense because it could of been a tranny learn process or it just loaded wrong or needed to be re-wrote to fix it and then bam, JUST FINE. but I dont know because half of them never come back to explain what happened, so I go to believe they got it figured out and were to lazy to care about posting the good news. If the problem persisted they would of probably came back and wanted more help.

So I dont know which way to go. I just keep thinking lets go 210 to be safe, but then someone said well it dosent have the crazy stiff shifting so you want the 250 or 275 to be safer. Then another saying keep it safe and go with the 210 and you'll be fine. Also do I need traction bars for the 250 or 275 if I went with them. Some say the shifting is awsome, some say way scary don't do it, others say traction bars then you'll love it.

So Matt, or Mick can you recommend exactly if you owned a 08 6.4 job#1 with a 6" lift on 37's. What would you do if it was your truck to keep it safe (not talking on doing every upgrade possible just sense able mods, budget minded) and how would you recommend driving on the tunes you recommend with the mods you recommend. I'm only going to take advice from the two of you because you guys work with it all the time. Brandon thanks for the advice, curious do you have a lift on your truck, dosen't look like it, I think the 275 from what i hear on my truck the way it is would require traction bars from the 6" lift, correct me if I'm wrong, seriously.

Looks like I get to order my setup sometime this week. I let the wife have the say on which house were getting, had about 3picked out. I really liked two she really liked the one. I told her as long as can do whatever the hell i want with my truck and have no bitc!@#, then pick the house you want I dont give a Sh!%. LOL so Spartan here I come so I guess I will get to see that private section anyway. Just really wanted to view it for more education on my setup before I buy something I don't need or a tune I wouldn't of wanted, or dont buy something that I should of. Ya know what I mean.

Thanks guys your a great bunch and real helpful.

 

You ask a lot of questions, just like I did when I was looking for something to get for the first 08 we purchased. I have talked with many people that tow with the big hp tunes. Have I done the same, yes but only an empty 4500 lb trailer using the 275 tune. But when I tow, it's heavy up to 22,000 with the 210 tune. Egt's are high running 60 with a 4.10 rear end on flat land here in Texas. Would I recommend it, no, because it's will be too easy to tear up your truck if you don't watch what your doing. But it all depends on you (how you drive), how much weight you will be pulling and if you will be driving on flat land or on big hills. Egt's can get real high using a big tune and pulling a load. You have to use your head, monitor your gauges and know when to keep your foot off the go pedal.

If your not one that is going to put the pedal to the floor when you take off all the time (when running empty) you probably wouldn't have any problem with the 275 tune other than not liking the hard shifting. I ran it for a long time on my truck using it as a daily driver. It shifts hard, but that's the way it has to shift to keep the transmission from slipping. Only reason I changed to another tune is because Matt send me the 310 when he started testing it. I have not looked back since. I don't run my truck hard. Well every now and then and it's usually after I'm already rolling if I do. I got this truck for towing and it does a great job with the 210 tune.

I'll get Matt to answer about the traction bars, as that's an area that I have no experience in.

Call me if you have time. Maybe I can try to locate someone in your area that is Spartan tuned. I think that would really help you figure out which way to go with the tune.

Mick
828-702-3461

 

Does it seem wise to ignore everyone except those who are paid to sell you something?

I do NOT mean to imply anything about Mick and Mike, as they seem like great folks who have lots to offer. But at the same time what you said was like saying that you will only listen to the salesman and the sales manager at the new car dealership when it comes to buying a new truck...not those around you who may have your interests in mind, as opposed to those who's best interests may conflict with your own.

Here's something to remember, and was posted by a Ford automatic transmission engineer who helped design the TorqShift transmission...

and then...

From:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...rain-life.html

 

As for the traction bars, I can tell you first hand they will be of benefit with any power level with the 6" of lift.

The 210 has the mildest of shifting of any tunes over the 200HP level; if you are sure you don't want to install traction bars, I'd stick with it. As for the 250 or 275HP, it's going to be a toss-up as to whether you'll have issues with the shift feel or not to be totally honest, as some do and some don't.

We have lots of trucks out there with the race tunes installed used daily without issues, but if the truck is abused beyond normal limits with it installed, trans and axle parts will start breaking over time. A few "floggings" a week going down an on-ramp or passing will do no harm, but hooking 10,000 lbs behind the truck and floorboarding it will certainly cause undue wear and damage. It boils down to the combination of tuning, application, and driver responsibility, all sharing fairly equal parts.

My safest recommendation would be to tow with the 150HP level and below, use the 210 for daily use, and the 275+ for goofing off on the weekends, ect. With this combination of use, there will be no affect on reliability whatsoever if the truck is driven in a somewhat responsible manner.

One of the most destructive activities is competition sled-pulling; in which the hottest tunes are used. Keep in mind that towing with the 275 or 310 and really abusing the throttle is basically simulating the same thing.

I have and continue to tow with both race tunes on our shop trucks- but the truck has to be driven, driveline will be damaged in short order if you do things without paying attention.

 

Matt. been following this post, and as Pheelectric I am trying to read as much as possible on tunes.. Does the figure say 210 hp give the engine an additional 210 hp? or is this just a rough estimate? and is a there an estimated torque increase for the different levels? Sounds like every one is questioning fuel mileage and hp. but I havn't seen anything on torque values.. and what kind of information is needed to set up custom tunes?

 

Well truthfully I didn't know mick worked for Spartan, thats news to me. As the two have been the "only" two who have continued to anwser my questions.

I'm actually having a really hard time with this, I keep thinking maybe I'm just getting caught up in a consumer product. The hard part is there isn't a single person i've come across with over 30,000 miles on this programmer and its been out for quite a while. I mean I really dont even care about 50k miles. I know there are trucks out there with over 100k miles on them, so where are the ones with the programmers. Also I'm not in it for a 50k stretch then "boom" tranny goes. International claims this engine is designed for 350,000miles. But thats with their stock hp/tq in mind. Whats this programmer gonna do at 100k. No one seems to have a clue and i havent heard of one, thats whats really stressing me out. Even if there is "1", maybe he drove like a grandma and didn't tow, who know. Even then I wanna see this motor go a long ways and now I'm having second thoughts as I'm only hearing from the salesmen.

Dont get me wrong matt and mick are great guys and really nice. Its just everytime I read these threads there are a handful of the same guys on this site and still these same guys on other sites claming "GO SPARTAN". But **** who knows if these guys got A$$ loads of cash and is a tranny goes out, "oh well just get a new one, no worries". Well i'm not that rich and maybe I just shouldn't do it. If I do and I cry everyone on here will just say "shut up I told you so, you knew, you took the chance, things break". Especially with a Ford, ford guys like us have gotten so used to going into the shop for warranty work its almost sad. My brother and dad have a diesel chevy, and they are freakin laughin their A$$ off about all the times my truck has already been into the shop for major work. Dude i've only got 25k miles. I've been there 9times! 6 Diffrent problems, once it was down for 2 weeks! 3 problems keep coming back, they cant even fix it. Man I just love this truck, but seriously what the hell is wrong with it, it really is a joke, never owned a Ford before and heard the stories but thought it was just my dad being a chevy guy and talking smack about his rival, but dude i'm totally living his smack stories. And now i'm thinking of tunning it. I think I had better sit on this for a bit. I dont know I've owned with my wife 2honda/2dodge/3chevys/jeep, and I'VE NEVER EVEN HAD ANY PROBLEMS, except my 91 honda accord old commuter car had its auto tranny go out at 180,000miles. Chevy Tahoe was in the shop for a fuel pump. Older chevy tahoe was in for a broken shock. DUDE THATS IT!
My ford 6.4 with 25k has had more problems in 1year than all my cars and my wifes cars combined for more than my 16years of driving and her 15years.

I think I'm just gonna leave it. I mean why, why cause more problems by adding more horse power/ toruque? Its a love hate relationship, its the best looking truck out there and built like a heavy brick house, but just has nothing but problems. It will deff. be my last ford unless they can get a solid engine. Maybe this next 6.7scorpion will be it. Its my first diesel, I've been so excited about it I've babied it with fluid changes and cetane boosters and everything my dad said could help it out, but man I thought diesels were supposed to be runners and less problematic. Thats what everyone that owned a dodge and chevy said..... but the ford guys are like well its just got some bugs. WTF? Why, why does my truck have bugs. Cant ford work that crap out before they sell me a $50k truck. In all honesty I will keep it until 100k until the warranty is up and as long as it hasn't been having problems all the way til then, I'll keep it. But if these problems continue I'm trading it in and taking my $5,000 stereo and $5,000 wheels and tires off it and selling the lift and getting, something better at that time.. time will tell... and then I'll decide. Bad azz truck though when its not in the shop.

So yeah a tuner isn't a bright idea. All i need is my warranty void and then what will i do with this problematic truck. Matt and Mick say there has never been a warranty denied by this programmer, but how can you really know. You've sold so many. I bet someone blew their motor Ford figured it out and the dude bit the bullet and just tradded it in for $10k, and never called you guys to let you know. There's no way to know for sure.

I just don't have the money to fix it if it brakes, thats what the warranty is for, and an extended in the future. A blown 6.4 is $14,000 dollars installed from my dealer if its not covered. AND I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE THE GUY WHO GETS THE QUIT CRYIN BIT THAT I'VE SEEN YOU GUYS DO TO PEOPLE ALL OVER THIS SITE.

 

Mick just provides tech support for Spartan, he isnt an employee. You have heard from numerous people on this thread so I dont know how you can say Mick and Matt are the only 2 to respond to you. Its obvious you have a personal conflict trying to decide what to do but I dont understand what you want everyone to keep telling you. For example Brandon gave you all his info and opinions, what else do you want him to say. Matt and Mick keep responding because you are asking technical information instead of opinions. I applaud those guys for responding as much as they have.

They didnt say no one has been burned on the warranty, in fact they said if someone looked hard enough they could probably find signs. Things like burn patterns in the pistons dont go away just because you put it back to stock. What they are telling you is that no one has called them and said they put everything back to stock, replaced the DPF, and been denied for a fuel pump or radiator type of problem. Maybe its happened but they are telling you they arent aware of it. It is 100% ridiculous to think that any tuner is going to give you a gaurantee on your warranty. Thats a calculated risk that you have to take when you make a decision to run a tuner. Quite honestly I think its dead wrong to pull the warranty card if you blew it up by using a tuner. If I put aftermarket wiper blades on my truck and one of them scratches my windshield I wont go crying to Ford that its their fault and demand a new windshield. Thats just my opinion though and you already stated that you dont agree. If you run a tuner then take some responsibility.

Finally, there are very few guys with 100k miles on a 6.4 period. Its been out less than 3 years and most people dont drive 40k in a year. Even less people do it with a tuned truck and if they are driving that much they probably dont have time to be posting on here. Remember that most completely satisfied people dont wander around these forums hoping someone will ask them how many miles they have. The majority of the 6.4 people on here have had very few or no problems at all. There are plenty of guys with 20k-30k of really HARD miles which is probably equal to 100k of normal miles. Sled pulls, 4x4 launches, drag strip passes, etc are hard on trucks and equate to more abuse than picking up a big mac in the drive thru.

 

PHElectric, Matt's going to have a cow, but look on the BBB website. He'll tell you I'm mad because he wouldn't return my dpf delete pipe, read for yourself. Matttold me one thing and the "goofy" professor told me another. Then I got an earfull of cussing from Donna about how "upset" she was.

Oh yea, anyone want to buy a new dpf delete pipe still in the box. 30% off Matt's price. He says it was made by Jesus.

 

I know I'm not the only one that was wondering if and when you'd chime in with your 2 cents. Maybe one day something exciting will happen in your life and you'll move on. I pulled a brandon4 last week and tried to take back a carton of milk that was 9 months old, can you beleive the store wouldn't give me my money back?

On a side note I think you are making the right choice PHElectric, if you have bad feelings and are worried about warranty then stay away from the tuners for now. Especially if you've already had problems because every problem you have down the road would have you questioning the tuner and life's too short for that.

 

Thanks for expressing your feelings.

I said mick and matt are the only two that have "continued" to anwser my questions. I have heard from a diffrent people one or two times. But have continued to get feedback from matt and mick as well as with personal emails.

You did say "They didnt say no one has been burned on the warranty". I do have a email from mick saying that no one has been caught in a warranty issue. Honestly do I think Mick is lying, no. I believe him, I believe he has not heard of anyone being caught. I do find it hard to find that absolutley everyone has gotten away with it, I'm sure a couple of people blew a motor or tranny and ford did some digging and found too much conclusive eveidence that points to a tuner and denided their warranty. Now if they would of taken it to court I guarantee they could beat it.

Do i think its right that a warranty by Ford needs to pay for a blown up motor from someone running 250-310 hp tunes. Not at all. I'm worried that if I go in for a bad alternator and they find a chip and deny my whole warranty, even if there is not a single issue with the truck, they will deny it just cuz they feel they can, and it will save them all that money from when their cheap **** actually does break on us due to a real factory defect or flash (ie radiators, HPFP, head gaskets,).

Do I think its right for ford to deny a 100k warranty due to a chip installed, and the only thing was wrong was something unrelated like an altenator, or wiper blade motor, or a leaking radiator. No, infact the supreme courts of america agree with me on this and that is why the moss/magnussen act is in place.

Now do I believe Ford should replace my turbo blades if they are all chipped up and dull and I have installed a large screen K&N air intake with no protection from dust and dirt that can get thrown up into the engine. Absolutley not. That intake for 100% was the cause of that damage and is 100% directly releated. Now if I had left on the paper filter (hat dust aint even getting through) just like ford had designed for it, the turbos would be just fine, so it was my fault.

Now I've seen Ford and many other dealers just chompin at the bit to deny as many warranties as possible. I've heard the service manager tell stories of ford engineers trying to deny warranty work on an engine because the customer ran 35" m/t tires and said these weren't designed for the truck. Well hey this man just dropped $55k on one of your products, your company is worth billions on billions, and if your in financial trouble just ask for a bail out. Don't worry ford you'll be okay. But the poor guy who bought the truck probably spent his savings on the damn thing and now doesn't have 2cents left to fix the unjustified warranty denial by the engineer.

So do you really see Ford as moral role model, no their in it for the money and they will screw people out of money if they feel they can. I've seen it many times. They aint no honest Abe in fact their far from it. So lets say I got a tunner and my high pressure fuel pump goes out. How do they know for a 100% fact that is was without a doubt the fault of my tuner and if it wasn't for my tuner it would of lasted 200k miles. They don't. And hay maybe it would of lasted but we will never know. So who is at fault. In my eyes no one. Ford has a pocket book deeper than all of us combined too. Plus too, that employee pricing is bull. They try to tell you that they are basically making $500 on the sale of the truck, lol How many of you really believe that. Here is some new for you. My dad worked for a dealership for 38years and laughed in the last years about their employee pricing. They were selling dodge trucks at $42,000 down from $51,000. You know how much they paid for that truck actually $28,500!!!

So now whos the lying crook. You ever go into a dealership and try to buy a new car, I have lots of times. Doesn't matter who it is, they are all liars and full of S%!#

They sit there and try to screw you as hard as they can out of all your money and play stupid. So do I feel bad if I screw them out of a little money and play stupid, not really, especially after writting that $50k check to just have my truck in the shop more than on the road even without a tuner. So yeah that was real nice of them, they could of said " Hey by the way, I know it looks nice and is built tought, but you'll be in the shop more with this truck alone that you ever have been in your life, and go ahead and ask for a customer loaner truck cuz you aint getting it, oh can I have that money now" ********

Thanks for the guilt trip though, but my bags aren't packed and I'm not going anywhere. You have yourself a nice time though. So you can keep watching you John Wayne movies thinking that the world (including Ford) won't burn and cheat your a$$ everychance they get, and when you get tired of being stepped all over then maybe you'll wise up to the world we live in. Congratulations though if you make it through life with not one dishonest act in your life, but show anyone on this site claiming to be honest to the core through and through, and I'll show you a liar!

Again I've seen plenty of people with over 100k miles on a 3year old truck. Where I live most people drive 2-3hours a day to get into Seattle for work, I know its crazy but a lot do it. There are people like that all over the world and on this website. All I was asking is if anyone knows anyone with those miles that has been running a tunner. I'm not saying that discredits the tunner if there isn't any, I'm just saying wow that would be some good concrete proof that they can last for the long haul.

Anyway. Got a $500 deal on a SCT extreme Live wire w/ cat and dpf delete for $400. I can afford that and save my money for stuff that breaks after my warranty is denied.

And the whole "your tired of hearing people crying about their warranty"
Well I have expressed my thoughts and have not shedded any tears or blown any snot bubbles so your the only one "cryin". I'm just looking for knowledge and information to make an educated decision, as so when and if my warranty gets denied I have no one to blame but myself. But hey if you wanna send me your number I can let you listen to my daughter cry when I change her diaper.

Tell the Duke I said hi......

 

Well I run a small shop as well and give screaming prices that the big shops cant touch. Service is topnotch but I don't work on weekends. But if someone bought a part from me and if it was longer than a couple weeks I wouldn't take it back either. I feel for you though. Maybe you didn't know their policy about returns, maybe they hadn't posted it yet. But its a heavy piece and If I shipped it to you I wouldn't take it back either. So if you want big company return policy well they you gotta take their prices and service with it. Small guys can be diffrent, but overall you cant beat talking with a owner one on one and that personal service you'll never get from a big shop.

As far as the screaming in your ear, lol. I don't know but I have a wife too and she is as professional as they come, except for one week a month

 

Thanks for your insight, its appreciated. I have decided to go with a SCT livewire extreme w/ dpf delete and cat delete for almost $500. I just moved my family and have been spending cash like crazy and $1500 is just a little too steep. Jobs have been slowing down and I'm getting tight. So $1000 is helpful to save right now. Gonna talk with the guy about it more tonight. Couple things I got to be sure about or I will be going back to spartan, is that does the SCT do its programming like spartan and without throwing the code of a foreign programmer. I understand spartans has no code if you put it back to stock.

How much will it cost to get Innovative Diesel or someone good to put a custome tune on my truck, that could be a factor as well.

That is the big 2 questions I have right before I pick up that SCT livewire.

I know I ask and research a lot, but I love my truck and I try not to be just plain stupid about anything I do to it. Education is key. Then at the end if stuff breaks there is no one to blame but me.

 

The timing on this made me laugh a little.

The same day I was reading on how you were likely going to chose not to get the tuner, I found myself telling a similar story to a rep from Banks...I got a call, and they asked me if I thought about buying one of their products, as we had talked about it a couple months ago.

I told him a similar story to you, how I've been having problems with my truck and was going to wait to see how everything shakes out. Mine's in the shop right now for a coolant leak.

I will say that from everything I've read and heard, it seems that Spartan is about the best in the business. When I'm ready to make a change to my truck, which could take a few years, it'll be spartan for sure if I do a DPF delete. Above and beyond any claims of greatness, Matt and the rest seem to really know their product and the trucks they work on. I have seen far more detailed answers from Matt and Mick than I EVER have from another tuning outfit.

My big problem with this is the fact that I'm not looking for more power! I think my truck has loads of power. I just am tired of the lousy MPGs that are necessary with these kinds of emissions controls the tree huggers have foisted on us. It seems that everyone, including Matt and Mick, are saying that in order to get the best MPGs possible you have to use the hottest tunes they make. I will NOT do that to my truck! As overbuilt as these things are, they were NOT made to handle 600 HP. They may do it with relatively few problems, but I cannot afford $15K for a new engine, or $5K for a new transmission.

But believe me, if I had that kind of cash laying around, I'd do it in a minute. For the moment, I'm in PHelectric's boat. I do NOT want to end up paying repair bills on a new truck!

 

I have been running SCT livewire for about 6 months now and I like it. I bought mine from a coworker for $400 dollars and it is the extreme with dpf delete tunes. I had Spartan tuning on my 6.0 and it was second to none and I know some guys with their 6.4 tuning and I have to say it is the best and I don't just mean as far as all out power. Their trans tuning is by far the best on all of the tunes I have been around. With that said I don't think you will go wrong for $400 or $500 on the livewire and you can always get Spartan later if you so desire. Another thing is if you are not looking for all out power the canned tunes on the LiveWire are not that bad. I ordered the 485 custom tune from River City Diesel and it was $100 and has picked me up about 2 MPG over the canned performance tune on the LiveWire. I am still running the stock intake because I take my truck on some dusty jobs and nothing filters dirt better than the OEM Donaldson filter and I am not looking for all out performance anyway. You will see some MPG increases just from doing a DPF delete and running a stock type tune but it might not be as much as you are wanting. I think it is great just not having to deal with the stupid regen and it wanting to do it at the most inconvienent times possible. I think you will enjoy the LiveWire if you do decide to get it. It will work fine for me until I save up enough money for the Spartan tuner!

 

Use to be that way, but I do work for them and have for about 6 months or so. If I didn't enjoy the product as much as I do then I wouldn't be doing this. Tunes are great, and I don't think you can find a better instrument than the DashDAQ to monitor your truck with.

Mick