Tap & Die Set
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 530
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From: W. Wisc
Tap & Die Set
Usually I know where to find the good tools, but I'm at a loss here.
A guy from work who has done a lot of metal work says carbon steel taps/dies are pretty much worthless as they break/wear out too easily. "You want HSS." OK, I'm cool with that, but who makes a good set that isn't outrageous? Craftsman seems to have some Metric HSS, but no English anymore. Metric covers all automotive, but none of the around the house stuff, of course. T&D sets are not exactly the norm for most homeowners, and contractors so they are not easy to find. I have metric thread chasers for some things, but not enough, and no real taps/dies.
Any tips? I could get the Craftsman Metric set and then just fill in English as required (I have an old set I picked up at an auction years ago that covers the main stuff from 1/4-20 and up), but I kinda want to do it in one shot, if ya know what I mean.
Thanks,
Dave
A guy from work who has done a lot of metal work says carbon steel taps/dies are pretty much worthless as they break/wear out too easily. "You want HSS." OK, I'm cool with that, but who makes a good set that isn't outrageous? Craftsman seems to have some Metric HSS, but no English anymore. Metric covers all automotive, but none of the around the house stuff, of course. T&D sets are not exactly the norm for most homeowners, and contractors so they are not easy to find. I have metric thread chasers for some things, but not enough, and no real taps/dies.
Any tips? I could get the Craftsman Metric set and then just fill in English as required (I have an old set I picked up at an auction years ago that covers the main stuff from 1/4-20 and up), but I kinda want to do it in one shot, if ya know what I mean.
Thanks,
Dave
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,476
Likes: 224
From: Frequently frozen MN
There are a couple of machinist oriented places that seem to have some
Penn tool and Enco Tool. Both are on the web.
I've ordered stuff from both in the past, but they carry good and not so good stuff.
Anyway, you might find what you want at one of them.
Penn tool and Enco Tool. Both are on the web.
I've ordered stuff from both in the past, but they carry good and not so good stuff.
Anyway, you might find what you want at one of them.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 448
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unless you are going to hand tap hundreds of holes or use them for powered tapping heads, the carbon steel will work well, if the tap is properly made
the main issue is having the tap straight and the proper cutting fluid for the material being tapped
most carbon steel and high speed steel sets, including Craftsman, are now imported and at best are questionable quality
Craftsman did have a HSS combination set, inch and metric a few years ago that was all US made (in NC) and may still be available
the main issue is having the tap straight and the proper cutting fluid for the material being tapped
most carbon steel and high speed steel sets, including Craftsman, are now imported and at best are questionable quality
Craftsman did have a HSS combination set, inch and metric a few years ago that was all US made (in NC) and may still be available
Cranky Old Guy
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,562
Likes: 6
From: Raphine, Virginia
I bought both metric and standard Craftsman HSS sets off E-Bay. The only thing I hate is the interior of box is not marked so I have to get a magnifing glass to find which one I need. It's been less than a year ago.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: W. Wisc
Thanks for the tips. I'm not tapping hundred of holes, but the advice I was given was that carbon taps break too easily and wear out like instantly. I hadn't thought about Enco, that an option I should have remembered. Never heard of Penn - I'll look them up.
Any ideas on brands that are usually good without breaking the bank too badly?
Thanks again.
-Dave
Any ideas on brands that are usually good without breaking the bank too badly?
Thanks again.
-Dave
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 3
From: Sapulpa OK
Wholesale tool has stores in Michigan and are online @ www.wttool.com. Have cheap and good grade tools there at a decent price. I live in CA. and thats where I go unless I'm in a hurry then I go to our local welding supply store. I pay a little more but they have good quality stuff.
Most taps wear out rather rapidly. I would replace them after 20 or so holes depending on the type of material you are working with. That way you stand less of a chance of breaking one off. You can tell when the torque required to tap a hole increases, it is time to replace it.
Most taps wear out rather rapidly. I would replace them after 20 or so holes depending on the type of material you are working with. That way you stand less of a chance of breaking one off. You can tell when the torque required to tap a hole increases, it is time to replace it.
Last edited by fixnair; Jul 18, 2009 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Add info
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 163
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From: madera California
Another thing you can do also is what im doing.
Buy the cheaper stuff and as you replace the broken pieces or worn out you buy the high quality pieces to replace them.
Buy the cheaper stuff and as you replace the broken pieces or worn out you buy the high quality pieces to replace them.
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Elder User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 799
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From: State of Misery (Missouri
What are you using them on/for?
I bought and used HF taps, for aluminum (had some projects). Their "titanium" coated ones worked well for that. I have also used them as a chaser on a grade 8 bolt (no access to a hardware store, late night fix on a puller tool to get a vehicle going for the next day).
I also have some Craftsman carbon steel ones that I have used when I made something (light duty), and have borrowed some HSS ones from a machinist friend (he knows how I treat tools, which is why I can borrow), for better/tougher projects.
But MOST of my use is thread chasing. For those, I prefer the rethreading tools (not a tap or die in the traditional sense). If this is your use, I would look for them first.
And as my machinist friend told me, keep your eyes out. You can find good old stock either not used, or lightly used at garage/estate sales (bought for one project).
I bought and used HF taps, for aluminum (had some projects). Their "titanium" coated ones worked well for that. I have also used them as a chaser on a grade 8 bolt (no access to a hardware store, late night fix on a puller tool to get a vehicle going for the next day).
I also have some Craftsman carbon steel ones that I have used when I made something (light duty), and have borrowed some HSS ones from a machinist friend (he knows how I treat tools, which is why I can borrow), for better/tougher projects.
But MOST of my use is thread chasing. For those, I prefer the rethreading tools (not a tap or die in the traditional sense). If this is your use, I would look for them first.
And as my machinist friend told me, keep your eyes out. You can find good old stock either not used, or lightly used at garage/estate sales (bought for one project).
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: W. Wisc
My use isn't hardcore machining, though that does happen on rare occasions. I have metric thread chasers which cover most of the standard automotive uses. Mostly I just like having these things on hand so I can do things as they come up instead of hassling around trying to make something work or find bits and pieces. I picked up an old set of taps and dies at an estate sale some years back, but it starts at 1/4-20 so I am missing all the common stuff in #6,8,10, etc. Every time I go to the set for a tap, I remember it isn't small enough. grrrr. Plus no metric for all the car stuff.
That plus I like good tools. I hate buying cheap crap that barely works or worse - breaks.
Some good tips here. Thanks guys!
That plus I like good tools. I hate buying cheap crap that barely works or worse - breaks.
Some good tips here. Thanks guys!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,463
Likes: 103
From: Staten Island, NY
Carbon steel taps can be fine if the only thing you ever use them for is chasing threads or threading aluminum. Otherwise, don't waste your money. While they aren't much weaker than HSS taps they just don't last. Taps break because they aren't started straight, the hole is too small, chips aren't cleared or no lubricant. Buy HSS taps singly as you need or can afford them. You get what you pay for. Greenfield is a good brand and there are a number of others such as Cleveland and Kennametal.
If you're going to do any new threading get spiral point or "gun" taps. These push the chips ahead of the tap. No more "one turn in, half a turn out" to break the chips. Once youve used gun taps you'll never want to go back to a conventional tap.
If you're going to do any new threading get spiral point or "gun" taps. These push the chips ahead of the tap. No more "one turn in, half a turn out" to break the chips. Once youve used gun taps you'll never want to go back to a conventional tap.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,873
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta GA
I bought a cheap set for about $70 from Northern Tools about six years ago, quality was good for the price. All the dies and taps are marked, more geared towards SAE then metric.
I have drilled and then tapped holes into steel. This requires drilling the correct sized hole, which means having the correct fractional bit and doing it straight. Plus, lots of oil.
I have chased threads on studs many times.
As long as the quality has not changed, it would be a handy set to have around.
Me being a Ford guy I did buy a high quality dedicated 1/2x20 die to use on wheel lugs.
I have drilled and then tapped holes into steel. This requires drilling the correct sized hole, which means having the correct fractional bit and doing it straight. Plus, lots of oil.
I have chased threads on studs many times.
As long as the quality has not changed, it would be a handy set to have around.
Me being a Ford guy I did buy a high quality dedicated 1/2x20 die to use on wheel lugs.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: PHOENIX
If you are worried about tap breakage, try to avoid the 4 fluted ones. Those are more likely to break than the 2 fluted ones.
And as mentioned, always use real tapping fluid. It is thinner than cutting oil and works much better.
And avoid stainless like the plague. I have broken many small taps in stainless steel.
And as mentioned, always use real tapping fluid. It is thinner than cutting oil and works much better.
And avoid stainless like the plague. I have broken many small taps in stainless steel.
