Stu, You are a wealth of information. I had done a lot of looking but had not found all those sources/links. Thanks
Oh, one more thing. Some time ago, but within past year, I think, someone on the forum was talking about welding up wheels on their own-perhaps taking centers from old wheels and welding to new rims. Do you recall that thread and/or if they completed that. I never heard an end result.

 

It's a 20" lock ring style. Not a widow maker. You'll find the ring, or it could even be the double ring style, on the face side of the wheel. I can't tell much from the picture about the center, that is whether it's "stud piloted" or "hub piloted", but if it's on a Ford it'd be stud piloted. Somebody can make good use of these.

Thanks Duane, glad to help. I do remember the thread, and the pics the member posted of his process, but off the top of my head I don't remember who it was. Let me think on it.

While I was looking for that thread I found the one of Eric's about his new replacements that I mentioned above. Here's the link. Stu

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...xperience.html

 

Thanks truckdog for the id on the wheels. I will take a look again for a lock ring. I only have two but I know where there are two more in a junkyard

 

If they are Budd brand wheels there should be a number stamped on the concave side rim lip, generally opposite the valve stem. I think I see it in your picture. It'd be five digits, and may have letters before and after. If you can find that I should be able to look them up and let you describe them fully to prospective buyers, i.e. width, offset, ring design type, and whether hub piloted or stud piloted.

If they are Motor Wheel brand the number is on the face side between lugs to my recall. I've got some catalogs with numbers on them but not as many as Budd.

If they are Kelsey-Hayes, I've never been able to find numbers on them. But the outer rims would still be either Goodyear or Firestone products, and I should be able to help ID the rim/ring design at least on them if you need me to. Stu

 

Awesome thanks for the help, I will look for numbers this weekend.

 

Does say Budd Wheels and the number C-42920. There is also a lock ring on the other side. Lots of room around the hub so must be stud piloted.

 

I assume both are the same. They are stud piloted, 20" x 5", 5 lug x 8" circle, having 10" of dual spacing (same as 5" offset each), and have an "RH" solid lock ring that my local shops are still willing to service. I have a set of "RHs" for my trucks. The "RH" should not be confused with the "RH-5°" which is the widow maker. They weigh 58 pounds each. While the book says they are only recommended for 7.00 x 20" tires, I see that they've lived a long life with 8.25 x 20s. Anyway, that's what the book says. The "RH" is a real PITA to get the ring off and on. You don't want to bend the ring. Have it done by somebody that knows their stuff. Here's a cross section of the rim.

 

Thanks very much for the info. Will be good to pass on to the buyer. The weight info is a big bonus in case I need to ship them.

 

I've been paging through post on these forums and checking everything else I can to ID what a widowmaker is and isn't... I'm looking to buy the truck pictured (1952 Merc Big Job) and would like your assistance.
Are the wheels shown 'good' or dangerous? What is a description of these wheels so I can search for more info... You may be saying- why are you buying such a truck if you don't even know what these wheels are all about... gotta learn sometime.

thanks
dave
Cocoa Beach FL

 

Dave - the right front is not a widow maker rim. The wheels on your 1951 Merc F-7 or F-8 are the cast spoke variety, commonly called Daytons, that have "demountable" outer rims. It's hard to say with certainty which of two rim designs that right front is, but from what I can see it's a three piece design which would be either a Firestone R-5° or Firestone/Kelsey Hayes AR design. Most likely the R-5° I think. Below are cross section diagrams.




The true widow maker is the Firestone RH-5°, diagram below. While I don't write this with absolute confidence, Firestone references seem to show that the RH-5° was used only on wheels fitted with a center disc. I CAN say that with confidence for the 1950s, but don't know whether the design was adapted for use with Daytons in later years. The last of them were catalogued in 1976.



The beauty of having the Daytons is your present day ability to replace all the rims with tubeless 22.5" outer rims if you wish. These modern outer rims will mount up and afford trouble free service until the end of time. Stu

 

thank you... that eases my mind a little, but opens up a few more questions.
I'm glad that I have reliable, available options. Can you direct me to a source ( store or website) for the outer, tubeless 22.5 rims you mention.

lastly, what is beneath the cast spoke portion of the rim. Does the hub mount to a 5, 6, 8 or more lug flanged bearing like a modern car or truck rim?
just curious as I am trying to picture what's going on beneath the surface.

thanks again
dave
Cocoa Beach FL

 

Stu,

I got the 20" wheels for my 55 F600 from Les Schwab (who got them from AWS in Pasco) I have TOYO 9.00-20 radials on the front and 4 recapped radials on the back.

If I had known about the following Obsolete - American Wheel Specialist I would have gotten 19.5" wheels!


Cheers,


Rick

 

Dave - The below Chassis Catalog pics should help explain things. The cast spoke wheel, with integral hub, mounts right to the spindle. The drum mounts to it. The rim pictured is the R-5°. Tubeless 22.5" x 6.75" or 7.50" wide rims will be available from any of your local big truck tire shops. A set of 9R22.5" or maybe wider tires will complete the picture.

Assuming the truck becomes yours (we are enablers!), you've found a beauty. I'd really suggest that you watch Ebay for a copy of the Big Job Chassis Catalog as pictured. There is also a cd version of the complete catalog that covers the entire range of models.

The next thing I'll suggest is that you get to know Chuck Mantiglia of Chuck's Trucks in CT. Chuck has his own big trucks, and an incredible F-7 Coleman. He is the big truck expert. He has also recently taken over the parts inventory of the Job Lot company. Job Lot was for many years the best source for vintage big truck parts, but it has now closed its doors. Here is Chuck's web page. Stu

Chucks Trucks LLC., Chuck's Trucks, Chucks Trucks






Rick - a lot has changed since the days when we struggled to find big truck disc wheels for the old bolt patterns. AWS, Wheels Now, and others have factory new 19.5" and 22.5" wheels available. I've even seen where they've catalogued them using the old obsolete Budd part numbers. The draw back to the factory new wheels is they look different than the old originals. They have a wider face. But custom 19.5" and 22.5" can still be made as you've shown using the old centers mounted into new tubeless rims. Stu

 

One more thing that might help. A tube type 20" rim and tire have the same outside diameter as the next size wider tubeless 22.5". The tubeless rim has a "drop center" that allows a tire to be stretched over the rim while mounting. The side wall of the 22.5" is shorter than the 20" to yield the same outside diameter. Diagrams make it easier to understand. Stu

 

great info... exactly what I was looking for.
Been away from internet access for awhile
Hoping to do some research and make a
decision soon... Any assistance in decoding
the serial number?

TN81BH51-5005

Mercury M7 - 1951