i was checking the latest news on yahoo and i came across this article and i was outraged


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress approved a "cash for clunkers" program Thursday to provide government incentives of $3,500 to $4,500 to motorists who trade in their gas guzzlers for more fuel efficient vehicles after Senate Democrats narrowly defeated a Republican effort to kill the plan.

Auto state senators said the program would help hard-pressed car dealers and automakers by bringing buyers into showrooms, and they got help from President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, who made calls to wavering Democrats urging them to keep the plan alive.

"This is an emergency for families and small businesses -- for an industry that has been the backbone of our economy for a generation," said Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., who sponsored the proposal.

Opponents said it would increase the federal debt without doing much to get expensive-to-operate vehicles off the roads.

Senate supporters of the program overcame a procedural hurdle by the plan's leading opponent, Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., on a 60-36 vote, winning the minimum number of votes needed to keep the program in a $106 billion war-spending plan that the Senate passed later Thursday.

The House approved the cash for clunkers bill last week on a vote of 298-119 and Senate Democrats attached it to the war-spending bill. The overall bill now goes to the White House for Obama's signature.

Four Republicans -- Kit Bond of Missouri, Thad Cochran of Mississippi, Susan Collins of Maine and George Voinovich of Ohio -- voted with two independents and 54 Democrats in favor of the clunker measure, while Democrat Ben Nelson of Nebraska was opposed along with 35 Republicans.

Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., changed her vote to support the vehicle incentive plan and spoke by phone with Obama during the vote.

Cantwell spokeswoman Ciaran Clayton said Obama "acknowledged Senator Cantwell's concerns that the cash- for-clunkers program ... did not do enough to meet our nation's urgent need to reduce foreign oil dependence" and vowed to work with Cantwell and others to "maximize the number of efficient cars on America's roads."

In addition to Cantwell, Obama and Biden reached out to Democrats Patrick Leahy of Vermont, Claire McCaskill of Missouri and Michael Bennet of Colorado, according to two people familiar with the outreach. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

Obama has encouraged Congress to approve the consumer incentives for new car purchases as part of the government's efforts to restructure General Motors Corp. and Chrysler Group LLC. The bill provides $1 billion for the program from July through November.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., who supported a plan with more stringent requirements to receive the vouchers, said she received "absolute assurance" from Senate leaders that if the program was continued beyond November it would be modeled after the bill she pushed.

Supporters said the program, which would be implemented by the Transportation Department, was expected to be implemented by early August.

The auto industry and its union lobbied heavily for passage of the cash for clunkers plan as GM and Chrysler have received billions of dollars in government-led bankruptcies and the entire auto industry has dealt with plummeting car sales. In May, overall sales were 34 percent lower than a year ago.

Under the proposal, car owners could get a voucher worth $3,500 if they traded in a vehicle getting 18 miles per gallon or less for one getting at least 22 mpg. The value of the voucher would grow to $4,500 if the mileage of the new car was 10 mpg higher than the old vehicle. The miles per gallon figures are listed on the car window's sticker.

Owners of sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks or minivans that get 18 mpg or less could receive a voucher for $3,500 if their new truck or SUV got at least 2 mpg higher than their old vehicle. The voucher would increase to $4,500 if the mileage of the new truck or SUV was at least 5 mpg higher than the older vehicle.

Dealers participating in the program would receive an electronic voucher from the government for the trade-in to apply to the purchase or lease of a qualifying vehicle. The bill directs dealers to ensure that the older vehicles are crushed or shredded to get the clunkers off the road.

The program was intended to help replace older vehicles -- built in model year 1984 or later -- and would not make financial sense for consumers owning an older car with a trade-in value greater than $3,500 or $4,500.

The U.S. industry is expected to generate about 9.5 million vehicles sales in 2009, compared with more than 13 million in 2008 and more than 16 million in 2007.

Associated Press writer Matthew Daly contributed to this report.

The bill is H.R. 2346.




under this bill anyone can take any older vehicle and trade it in for a newer one. in theory if my truck got 11 mpg and i went to a participating dealership and found say a 98 f 150 that gets 21 mpg with a sticker price of 4600 then i could get it for 100 dollars and they would in turn shred my truck. i was confident obama was going to change the way our country is run but we had to know he was gonna f@#k something up he is taking a crap on our lifestyle and passion. anyone know how bad the gas milage is on the presidential limo? and how bout airforce one the plane and the chopper. he is one of the biggest individual gas guzzlers in the country. i swear if this takes hold i will personally drive over every smart car and toyota pos i see from now on anyone else with me or am i just a "smog makin earth hating hillbilly jacka$$" as i am regularly called by the guys around here that can park there car in a refridgerator box. you can keep those tiny plastic pieces of crap and we'll see what happens when your too busy playing with your blackberry to notice the light change and you t-bone me. i will laugh while i bang out the dent with a hammer and you will cry the wrecker driver sweeps up the plastic pieces. and i am not huge on doomsday theorys but if the "emp attack" ever happens good luck getting to somewhere with more civilization i will be the guy cruisin around like nothing happened meeting up with my "hillbilly" friends to come up with a plan to save your sorry a$$. if you want to save the planet stop expanding the cities and plant a damn tree but out here in the country things are just fine i planted enoug corn this year workin on a farm to counteract all the smog in my town and we all drive trucks. everyone feel free to rant with me

 

I'm not sure I know where to start

I can imagine though if something like this is passed you will see a lot of "clunkers" being bought up and driven right to a dealer for the voucher.

 

This bill has been on the books for a while and I am ashamed to say our crazy democrap Senator is the backbone behind the thing. It's amazing how little sense this makes, but how it still gets pushed through the government system on the premise of being "green". Total bullsh%@!

It sucks being the oddball "redneck" in the land of freakin liberal dumba$$es!

 

problem is it has passed it is on the way to obama to be signed and will run from next month till november everyone hide your dentside dont let them crush it and if you have the means buy up any going real cheap in your area keep our AMERICAN HERITAGE alive dont let it be sold out buy some tree huggin fairy that wants to get a new "yaris" and wants to save some cash
imagine this if you will you have and old rusty but trusty dentside out front for sale since you got a good deal on a better dentside. some kid with a face full of metal and a cell phone permanently attached to his ear knocks on your door and asks how much you want. you end up haggeling for 750. he drives off and you hope that maybe looks are decieving and this kid might take good care of the old girl. going to work a few days later you go past a honda dealreship and theres the kid trading it in for a new "fit" with a s#@t eating grin cuz he just got 4500 for it saving himself a total of 3750 so he can go get a loud a$$ sound system to rattle your windows at 3 in the morning and drown out the annoying sound of his rice burnin engine that only takes a tank of gas a year. if this happened to me i would park my truck on top of his freakin honda and se if he has the ***** to do somthing about it

 

Yikes!....rather grim picture you are trying to paint there. I'm going to be an optimist and wager we'll see few old Fords making their way to their death by way of this voucher. And those that are going to will be the ones whose owner would have let them rust to nothing anyways.

 

DAM and we just traded the crap cheby suburban for a $300 transmission we haven't gotten yet!! I coulda limped that thing to the dealer to get meself a newer f150 as a daily driver, the frame was rotting pretty bad, sat for like 8 years and ran on maybe 5 of the 8 cylinders, crappy 305 cheby!!

O wait... i'm supposed to rant.. i'll do that too!

I HATE this bill, i mean could you imagine the people taking in our old fords not thinking they are worth anything!?! I'm even a young guy (20), and i want to punch those idiots who run sub woofers loud and run those fart can cars... I'd even be pissed if someone junked an old chevy truck too from this bill... I mean lets face it, the more older carb'd daily drivers get off the road, the better these eco people think the world is getting... besides, if there are no more chevys on the road, who are we gonna pull out of ditches and mud pits???

If i could afford the gas (ironic i know), i would run the carb rich, so i plume some dark exhaust on a hard take-off... so if any eco-nuts are watching, they could smell a REAL engine run!!

\\end rant

keep ur truck runnin' and the beer cold ,
JT

 

In a year and a half lets show the Dems how pizzed we are and start voting them out...if our country makes it that long with our new "leadership".

 

As long as they aren't forcing us to do this, I think I can live with it. All those who don't respect and don't care about the classics (Dodge and Chevy too, I guess) will start doing this and it will increase the value of our classics. But do they have to buy new vehicles or used? If the bill requires them to buy new, I really don't see it taking effect. That's the whole reason we still have "clunkers", because people can't fork over the cash. Who knows, maybe $3500 is enough to take the leap.

 

Let me start by saying I think this bill sucks! BUT....We are safe.(for now) The bill only applies to vehicles built after 1984. and you only get the credit if you buy a NEW vehicle.

 

There are also other requirements, as it has to be for one of certain efficiency and such. You can't tradein an old inoperable POS and get a new powerstroke, they need to be properly operable and legal, and be trading for something that gets over 30 mpg if I recall.

 

I copied this from Cash For Clunkers Bill | Program Information Qualifications



FAQ
We have received hundreds of email with questions about the Cash for Clunkers Bill, and we have compiled a list of frequently asked questions to help calm anxious consumers. If you have additional questions, send them to info@cashforclunkersfacts.com and you can also follow us on our new Twitter account for latest updates on the bill.
Q: Is the billed signed into law yet?
A: On Thursday, June 18th the Senate voted to KEEP the Cash for Clunkers provision in the $106 billion dollar wartime spending bill. This means that both the house and Senate have approved the spending bill and now it will go to President Obama to sign. The wartime spending bill is expected to be signed shortly and then it will take 30 days to get the CFC program up and running.
Q: Does the Cash for Clunkers bill apply to used car purchases?
A: Currently, the language of the proposed bill is only for new car purchases. If you are looking for a used car, click here.
Q: If I already purchased a new car, in the last few months, can the voucher apply to my past purchase?
A: We can not answer that question until the final bill is signed into law but…the answer looks like a NO. This is because all cars traded in for the program will be sent to the scrapyard. If you already traded in your car, there is no guarantee that it is off the road.
Q: If I want to buy a new car now and have a clunker that qualifies, can I get the voucher credit once the bill goes into effect by bringing in the old car to the dealership where I purchased my new car?
A: Again, we can’t answer that question until we see how the bill is implemented. If you can hold off until further information is available, it may be the best choice. If you need a car now, that is a chance you have to take.
Q: If my car is worth more than $4,500, how would the Cash for Clunker voucher work?
A: The program would not provide any benefit if a car dealer would give you more than $4,500 for your trade-in. If you want to purchase a new car, do not wait on this bill if your trade is worth more than $4,500 since it will not provide any upside relief.
Q: If dealers are offering cash incentives toward a new car purchase, would that be in addition to this voucher?
A: The program is independant from manufacturer buying incentives. For example, if a car dealer is offering $3,000 off the list price of a car and you qualified for a $4,500 voucher from your trade, then the total reduction off the MSRP would be $7,500. You should always shop for the best deals before buying a car.
Q: I have two old clunkers, can I trade-in both cars for a $9,000 voucher toward a new car purchase?
A: The current wording of the bill would seem to indicate that only ONE voucher can be applied to a new car purchase.
Q: How do I know if I qualify for a $3,500 voucher or a $4,500 voucher?
A: We need to wait on the final wording of the bill. Since there are various versions of the measure in play, we will notify everyone on our email list when the final bill language is signed into law? The amount will depend on the car you purchase and the increase in average MPG.
Q: How do I find a local Cash for Clunkers Participating Dealer?
A: If you will be purchasing a new car if the bill is signed into law, complete the form on the left. We will have a local dealer in your state contact you and get all your trade-in information now. This will allow you to be prepared when the bill is signed into law.
Be at the head of the line for the car you want because popular fuel efficient cars will be moving off dealer lots quickly. Since there will be a large “rush” when the bill is signed, getting all your paperwork and loan approvals in place in advance could get you to the head of the paperwork line.
Q: Can I go to the junkyard a buy an old car and use it for a trade?
A: The final language of the bill is still to be decided but it seems that you will have to show that the car is operational and that you have owned the car for a period of time. Right now, that may be a one-year period.
Q: What will happen to the car I trade in?
A: Once again, we have to wait for the final language but it would seem that the car would be recycled so cars that are worth more than $4,500 on a trade would not be viable for this program.
Q: My car is old and originally got more than 18 mpg, but now it gets 14 mpg. Will it qualify?
A: That is another popular question. We will have to wait and see if the bill provides a reasonable assessment of current MPG versus original manufacturer EPA MPG.
Q: How long will the program last?
A: That is still unknown. Some insiders were hoping to get funding that would keep the program running for one year. However, if funding is reduced, the program may only last a few months. That is why we encourage all consumers to connect with a Cash for Clunkers Participating Dealer now, so your paperwork can be lined up when the bill is signed into law.
Q: Are there restriction on the year of my trade-in?
A: The car can not be any older than a 1984 model year vehicle?
Q: Why would some trades qualify for $3,500 and other trades get $4,500?
A: The difference in vouchers depends on the improved gas mileage as compared to your trade. For example, if your new car purchase gets 4 mpg more than your trade you get $3,500. If the new car gets 10 mpg better than your trade you get $4,500.
Q: What if my trade-in is worth more than $4,500?
A: This program does not apply to you because you will be better off trading the car in through traditional channels. All cars that are part of the Cash for Clunkers bill we be sent to the scrapyard.
Q: I have an old clunker truck that gets under 18 mpg. Can I trade that in for a car that gets over 22 MPG?
A: It would seem that you will be able to trade it in. We will wait on the final wording on the bill since this is a very popular question.
Q: My parents own an old clunker. Can I transfer the title into my name and use it for a Cash for Clunkers trade-in?
A: It would seem that unless you have the car register in your name for at least a year, the answer would be no.
Q: Can I buy any new car and still qualify? Does it have to be an American manufacturer?
A: You can buy any new car: foreign or domestic.

 

I'm going to get flamed for this. While I fully understand your frustration and I'm saddened to see this train of events get moving, you need to understand that the day that classic trucks no longer prowl the land will come. Petroleum is a limited resource. When it's gone, it's gone. There WILL be a day when there is NO MORE gasoline.

You need to realize that it is this "lifestyle" and "passion" that is destroying the environment. The bills moving through legislature are no one's "fault." They're the result of the way the world has been living since the Industrial Revolution. If you think you are going to spend the next several decades of your life driving a vehicle that gets 10 miles per gallon, you are very, very wrong. The world is changing out of necessity.

I'm not a tree-hugging environmentalist; don't get me wrong, I get just as annoyed as the next guy when people shove this stuff in my face. But you need to be aware that you and I can't indefinitely use several gallons of gasoline a week and dump destructive amounts of NOx into the atmosphere every day, just to get to work. Sooner or later something's going to give.

I give this thread about one more day until it gets moved into the Club.

 

After all the talk about helping the US look at the last line!!!!!! I know that a lot of foreign cars are made here in the US, my Rodeo was assembled in Tennessee. But I would have to say the majority of the Revenue generated by these manufacturer's is going back overseas to the company, not staying here in the US.

What are the scrap yards going to do with all the steel? Are they going to melt it down and make more US cars or weapons for us to defend ourselves, or are they going to sell it to a foreign country to make weapons against us? I may be completely wrong, and I hope I am, but I don't see this law working to stimulate anything. Also if gas prices go back up again we are screwed, because with the economy in the shape it's in (people out of work) people can't afford for this to happen again. But that is a whole other rant. Sorry


Like I have said in all other posts about this, I think this will be to my advantage when I trade in my daily driver 1999 Isuzu Rodeo that has a trade in value of about $1,200, but if they start trying to mess with my 77 F100 then I'll have some issues.

 

Well there is your problem right there!

Be ready for a flood of dentside parts in the junk yards!

I know I will stock up.

 

Fixed. LOL

They aren't going to the junk yards, they are going to the shredder.