Trans Question - 61 Unibody
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From: Salisbury NC
Trans Question - 61 Unibody
Getting ready to start restoring my 61 F100 with 223 and three speed column shift. Would really like to find a different tranny that would bolt up to my stock bellhousing and give me a taller highway gear. I realize that my engine and trans were not used beyond 1964 so that narrows the field a lot. I do know that a four speed was used in some of the early sixties trucks. Would the fourth gear in it be higher than the third gear in my three speed? I've even researched overdrive units but they're obscenely expensive. I'm definitely keeping my 223 so changing the whole drivetrain is not an option - if I have to I'll live with a top speed of 70! haha Thanks guys.
Kris
Kris
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From: BC, Canada
Trans Question - 61 Unibody
I'm not positive but I would guess that the OD trans out of a late 70s/early 80s Mustang, Fairmont etc would bolt up to your bellhousing.
They are aluminum and look similar to an old 3 speed toploader.
As for a 4 speed trans from the same era as your truck having a taller 4th gear I dont think so.....unless you have OD, high gear (3rd or 4th) is usually direct....one to one ratio.
They are aluminum and look similar to an old 3 speed toploader.
As for a 4 speed trans from the same era as your truck having a taller 4th gear I dont think so.....unless you have OD, high gear (3rd or 4th) is usually direct....one to one ratio.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Trans Question - 61 Unibody
Kris,
Same boat. Here's a similar thread:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/DCForumID90/3299.html
Picture's worth a thousand words. First image is face of '65-up toploader factory drilled with two patterns. Narrow bolt pattern is '49-'64 cars and medium 3spd pickups, 5.25"x 7.3125"x 6.375x 7.25" with 4.6875" index hole/front bearing retainer. Wide bolt pattern is standard 'butterfly' '65-up, 8.5"x 6.25"x 8.5"x 6.25" with 4.848" index hole/front bearing retainer.
[http://home.sprintmail.com/~bhabben/_uimages/front1c.jpg]
Next image is face of T98/T18 drilled with two bolt patterns. Ford truck '53-'66 3 and 4 spd heavy duty T98 used top 4 holes, 8.25"x 4.62"x 8.25"x 2.75" with 5.125" index hole/front bearing retainer. '65-up T18's used outside 4 holes standard 'butterfly' pattern 8.5"x 6.25"x 8.5"x 6.25" with 4.848" index hole/front bearing retainer.
[http://home.sprintmail.com/~bhabben/_uimages/ft18fb.jpg]
There were 2 bellhousings for our 223's. First one is 3 spd. narrow bolt pattern with 4.6875" index hole. Second one is 8.25"x 4.62"x 8.25"x 2.75" with 5.125" index hole used with T98. You could scrounge up a 3 spd OD setup and stick it in place of your existing trans. T98 is tough granny 4 speed, no overdrive, shift lever sticking out of top and available cheap. You could swap in the T98 and bellhousing and change your ring and pinion to a lower numerical set and have the same effect as an overdrive trans. Here's some other options. Lots of '65 trannies are drilled with both later 'butterfly' AND the earlier 'narrow' pattern, or the casting maybe drilled with only the later pattern but there is room to drill the earlier 'narrow' pattern. You would also have to have the front bearing retainer turned down to 4.6875" to fit into the 3 spd bellhousing index, but it would bolt up. If you are using the T98 bellhousing it already has the top 2 bolt holes in place for the 'butterfly' pattern. I don't have a T98 bellhousing in front of me, but I think you could drill and tap the 2 lower holes in the bellhousing. You may have to build up some bosses by welding first. You would also have to bush the index hole down to 4.848" to match the front bearing retainer. 'Butterfly' trannies include Top Loaders, T170 OD's and variations, and Tremec 5 speeds (longer input shaft). Here's another difference. Pickups pre-65 used the large heavy duty 1-3/8" input shaft and corresponding clutch disks and throwout bearing. Cars and most post-65 pickups used 1-1/16" input shaft and corresponding clutch disks and throwout bearing. If you went to the smaller input shaft you'd have to swap clutch disks and either throwout bearings or else bush the throwout bearings. Another to watch for is input shaft length. Our trucks used an almost 7" stickout. The closer to that the better for pilot bearing engagement. FE trannies may be shorter, smallblock trannies are longer. Also, Badgerland F100 web site used to have a very cool T5 tranny to T98 bellhousing swap guide. Maybe somebody here can repost that info. Also, corrections and additions are always welcome for my folders.
Good Luck!
Brett
Same boat. Here's a similar thread:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/DCForumID90/3299.html
Picture's worth a thousand words. First image is face of '65-up toploader factory drilled with two patterns. Narrow bolt pattern is '49-'64 cars and medium 3spd pickups, 5.25"x 7.3125"x 6.375x 7.25" with 4.6875" index hole/front bearing retainer. Wide bolt pattern is standard 'butterfly' '65-up, 8.5"x 6.25"x 8.5"x 6.25" with 4.848" index hole/front bearing retainer.
[http://home.sprintmail.com/~bhabben/_uimages/front1c.jpg]
Next image is face of T98/T18 drilled with two bolt patterns. Ford truck '53-'66 3 and 4 spd heavy duty T98 used top 4 holes, 8.25"x 4.62"x 8.25"x 2.75" with 5.125" index hole/front bearing retainer. '65-up T18's used outside 4 holes standard 'butterfly' pattern 8.5"x 6.25"x 8.5"x 6.25" with 4.848" index hole/front bearing retainer.
[http://home.sprintmail.com/~bhabben/_uimages/ft18fb.jpg]
There were 2 bellhousings for our 223's. First one is 3 spd. narrow bolt pattern with 4.6875" index hole. Second one is 8.25"x 4.62"x 8.25"x 2.75" with 5.125" index hole used with T98. You could scrounge up a 3 spd OD setup and stick it in place of your existing trans. T98 is tough granny 4 speed, no overdrive, shift lever sticking out of top and available cheap. You could swap in the T98 and bellhousing and change your ring and pinion to a lower numerical set and have the same effect as an overdrive trans. Here's some other options. Lots of '65 trannies are drilled with both later 'butterfly' AND the earlier 'narrow' pattern, or the casting maybe drilled with only the later pattern but there is room to drill the earlier 'narrow' pattern. You would also have to have the front bearing retainer turned down to 4.6875" to fit into the 3 spd bellhousing index, but it would bolt up. If you are using the T98 bellhousing it already has the top 2 bolt holes in place for the 'butterfly' pattern. I don't have a T98 bellhousing in front of me, but I think you could drill and tap the 2 lower holes in the bellhousing. You may have to build up some bosses by welding first. You would also have to bush the index hole down to 4.848" to match the front bearing retainer. 'Butterfly' trannies include Top Loaders, T170 OD's and variations, and Tremec 5 speeds (longer input shaft). Here's another difference. Pickups pre-65 used the large heavy duty 1-3/8" input shaft and corresponding clutch disks and throwout bearing. Cars and most post-65 pickups used 1-1/16" input shaft and corresponding clutch disks and throwout bearing. If you went to the smaller input shaft you'd have to swap clutch disks and either throwout bearings or else bush the throwout bearings. Another to watch for is input shaft length. Our trucks used an almost 7" stickout. The closer to that the better for pilot bearing engagement. FE trannies may be shorter, smallblock trannies are longer. Also, Badgerland F100 web site used to have a very cool T5 tranny to T98 bellhousing swap guide. Maybe somebody here can repost that info. Also, corrections and additions are always welcome for my folders.
Good Luck!
Brett
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Trans Question - 61 Unibody
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