i know its messed up. the sticker says $32 and the dealer marks them up 8k and people pay the price!! i dont know what vetts are going for, but a 72k viper goes for 80-82k. there is a dodge dealer with a 01 650 venom for 160k!!!

i guess you cant blame the dealer, its all about suply and demand. remember when the pt cruser came out 30k! everything is way over priced here. ;-(

Eric

 

wow, that's messed up. i mean, why pay that when you can buy it elsewhere in the country and have it freightlined to you and still end up paying less than just buying it from a dealer in cali? weird stuff man.

 

i agree 100% with you! if i were in the market for a lightning, or anything else that is marked up, i would fly out and drive the vehichle home.

 

Just curious now, if everything costs more out there, don't your Dakota R/T's also cost alot more, like upwards of $29/30k? Cause then we can get into the discussion of someone buying a Dakota R/T in Cali, and someone buying a Lighting in Mass, and with the cost difference being quite negligable, the Lighting would be much more cost effective if you're looking to spend money on mods.....

Ryan

 

no, regular cars and trucks dont have a markup on them (dakota R/T included) the R/T's go between 17k and 24k.

the biggest markup i have seen is on the plymouth prowler. sticker is 42k and the markup is 30k. so the price ends up being 72k!!

Eric

 

The lightning is a bigger Truck!!! The dakota has a bigger engine in a smaller truck. How is that fair? However my faith Holds strong in the best... Ford. I have a Stock 5.0 HO in a 87 Ranger and I raced a v8 R/T Dakota and he got his *** handed to him. There nothing special! The lightning is a awsome truck. And who cares if its "S/C" I see no cheating in that!

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-Feb-02 AT 03:11 AM (EST)]that was the dumbest reply i have ever heard!

cool, you have a VERRY MODDED ranger (yes i consider a engine swap VERRY MODDED) with a engine that was intended to run in a sports car. well ok, ill take the 318 out of my truck, and install a 426 or 528 hemi and we will see who gets there *** handed to who!! its already been done.

if it dosent matter if its N/A or SC'd i guess a 1085hp twin turbo viper would be a even match for a stock vett, right? give me a break!

 

Eric, how do you consider an engine swap very modded. The 302 and 351W High Outputs are not insane sick engines. They are great engines, yes, but not overly intense. So he put a 5.0L in a Ranger. The Dakota has a 5.9L. And both trucks are in the same class. If he said he used GT40 heads or comp cams or Edel alum. intake or something like that, then yeah, it's a bit modded, slightly tweaked. But whatever, the point is you say he has a truck with an engine intended for a sports car. Well, the Dakota is a midsize truck with an engine in it intended on a full size Ram.

How can you possibly make any comparison to a Twin Turbo Viper pushing 1085 hp against a stock Vette pushing what, 350hp? And see any relationship between that matchup and a 380hp SC'd Lightning and a 245hp N/A R/T?

The real matchup was the stock Lighting vs. the stock Vette in Motor Trend that started the whole other thread on Lighting vs Vette, and the Vette barely beat it, and was outhandled by it.

This whole thing got way of on the wrong start. I have no problem with the R/T's, in fact, I think they look pretty nice. And yes, of course you can mod them to beat a Lightning and still probably spend about the same on the two. But hell, you could buy a Honda Civic DX and mod the hell out of that to kill an Lightning and a highly modded Dakota and still spend less overall than the Dakota.

The fact still remains the same. To date, the Lighting is the fastest factory production truck that can actually be used as a truck. Tell me what other company produces a truck that can go out from the factory and run 13's at the track, smoke most other cars on the road, and is still reasonably priced, compared to a sports car like a Viper or a Vette.

You really need to go to the Dakota owners forum and see the thread where a Dakota R/T owner bashed a Lightning and basically every Dakota owner out there came in and said "Dude, you're insane, the Lightning stomps the Dakota, and it takes some serious modding to get close to it." I will find the link so you can visit them and see first hand what the Lighting's "competition" is saying.

 

Eric, how do you consider an engine swap very modded. The 302 and 351W High Outputs are not insane sick engines. They are great engines, yes, but not overly intense. So he put a 5.0L in a Ranger. The Dakota has a 5.9L. And both trucks are in the same class. If he said he used GT40 heads or comp cams or Edel alum. intake or something like that, then yeah, it's a bit modded, slightly tweaked. But whatever, the point is you say he has a truck with an engine intended for a sports car. Well, the Dakota is a midsize truck with an engine in it intended on a full size Ram.

How can you possibly make any comparison to a Twin Turbo Viper pushing 1085 hp against a stock Vette pushing what, 350hp? And see any relationship between that matchup and a 380hp SC'd Lightning and a 245hp N/A R/T?

The real matchup was the stock Lighting vs. the stock Vette in Motor Trend that started the whole other thread on Lighting vs Vette, and the Vette barely beat it, and was outhandled by it.

This whole thing got way of on the wrong start. I have no problem with the R/T's, in fact, I think they look pretty nice. And yes, of course you can mod them to beat a Lightning and still probably spend about the same on the two. But hell, you could buy a Honda Civic DX and mod the hell out of that to kill an Lightning and a highly modded Dakota and still spend less overall than the Dakota.

The fact still remains the same. To date, the Lighting is the fastest factory production truck that can actually be used as a truck. Tell me what other company produces a truck that can go out from the factory and run 13's at the track, smoke most other cars on the road, and is still reasonably priced, compared to a sports car like a Viper or a Vette.

You really need to go to the Dakota owners forum and see the thread where a Dakota R/T owner bashed a Lightning and basically every Dakota owner out there came in and said "Dude, you're insane, the Lightning stomps the Dakota, and it takes some serious modding to get close to it." I will find the link so you can visit them and see first hand what the Lighting's "competition" is saying.

 

ryan, i agree with you BUT... the dakota and ranger are in differant catigories. the ranger is a compact and the dakota is a midsize. the ranger is a lot lighter. you said it your self, the 5.9 is a truck engine not a sports car engine. insted of the hemi, ill take a mopar performance 360cid/380hp and see whats up. that engine was designed to run

the thing i said about the TT viper and the vet, was because he said it didnt matter if the lightning had a supercharger. you and i both know that is a crock! my arguement to that was what i said about the viper and vett.

i have read the argument on dodgedakotas.com. if you re-read it, you will find i was in the argument and I WAS DEFENDING THE LIGHTNING! my argument to the dakota guys was, they can beat the lighning, but it would start breaking parts like trannys' and not be verry reliable.
since then i talked to a lot of people on blackdaktrt.com, and some are in the 13's (one 13 flat) on a N/A engine, and many in the 12's either NOS or blower and all say they have had no problems with anything.

you are right about making anything go fast, and about the lightning being the fastest truck right now. a lot has to do with brand loyalty. i love mopars because not many people fix them up. i bought my truck when i was 18. the lightning was not out, and even if it was i couldnt afford it. for me, mopar is #1 and ford #2. I WILL NEVER OWN A CHEVY!! id rather have a honda.

 

Hehe, well we can agree 100% on one thing, I'll never own a Chevy either! I don't mind Dodges, but like you said, it's brand loyalty. We all have our preferences.

I do agree that the SC is the Lightning's strong point, but that same 5.4L Triton engine found in the F-150's is rated for 260hp, compared to the Dodge's 5.9L, rated at 245hp (I could be off on that though...)

I was just saying your analogy was quite extreme, putting a V10 twin turbo Viper against a naturally aspirated Vette. Now a great match would be the TT Viper up against the TT Lingenfelter Vette, running 220mph on street radials! That thing is a monster, despite it being a Chevy.

To compare the Lightning and the Dakota, I would say, is like putting a twin turbo 3000GT against an Eclipse Spider. The spider is a fast car. But the GT does have the turbo advantage and is alot faster. Price wise, the GT is (well, since they don't make em anymore) it was more expensive than a Spider, but not by the cost difference of a TT Viper and a stock Vette.

In any case, as I said, I do like the Dakota, it's a nice looking ride, and from the sounds of it, yeah, it can be made damn fast, but like you, I have preferences, and my blood is blue hehe

 

its all good. just wondering if you had any picks of you lighting? what year is it?

 

Ok I can't leave this post alone. I don't diss the "L" fact is I even work for a Ford Dealership. Compare the price tag of an L to an R/T. I sure can't afford one and I get it for dealer price. I've seens guys with time tickets from their supercharged R/T'S and they will more then run with any L. And for the post about the 5.9 being a special engine is crap. Its a bone stock 360 out of a Ram. Its also been around since 1970 not the most advanced peice of iron. The 4.7 is the new generation of Dodge engines putting out 235hp -plus or minus- If you think the 5.9 is so sad for its hp who wants to diss the new 5.7 hemi that comes out this year makeing 345hp? makes the 5.4 sound slow doesn't it? I've driven enough 5.4's daily, bone stock to my 318 Dak it feels soooo slow, all its hp is in the high rpm range. I played around with a guy in an 88' or so 5.0 stang and he could not lose my from his rear bumper. Maybe the guy couldnt drive but from the sound of the car he was sure trying. I'd still drive a ford before a chev though!

 

Uh, you probably should have left it alone, because I don't buy it much. First off, if you worked for Ford, you would probably reealize that SVT vehicles are typically not sold to employees at dealer price. These vehciles include the Lightning, Contour, Cobra R, Focus, and Harley Davidson F-150. I've asked my buddy who works at 128 Ford in Reading this very question several times.

That's wonderful that you say you've seen slips of s/c'd R/T's running with Lightnings. I've seen slips of Hondas and VW's running with Pro-Street in the 8's and 9's. With money, anyone can literally achieve anything.

I cannot stress this enough folks. Please, please, please read through an entire post, and make sure you understand it thoroughly, before throwing your mouth off in a relpy. Had you actually read my earlier post, you would clearly have seen that I never refered to the 5.9L as being a "special" engine. You would have seen however, that I said the engine was not stock for the Dakota or the Durango. Show me a factory, non-R/T vehicle that uses the Magnum 5.9L and I will bow to you gracefully sir. Until then, please know what you're responding to. The 5.9L is not bone stock out of a Ram. Out of a stock 1500 Ram, you will find a 4.7L 240hp V8. Out of an SLT you will probably find a 5.9L 250 hp V8. The 5.9L is an upgraded engine. Not a "special" engine, but an engine upgrade from stock smaller engines. Therefore, you will pay more for it. Just as the 5.4L is not a stock engine in the F-150s. The 4.2L V6 is stock. If you want the 4.6L or 5.4L V8, you will be getting an engine upgrade, and you will pay more for it.

You also mention "Its also been around since 1970 not the most advanced peice of iron". If this is the case, would one not make a correct assumption in believing that after 32 some odd years, Mopar would have refined this "piece of iron" to be one of the best engines out there today? One would think so. Apparently this is not the case. I guess with time, Mopar lives up to their name of "Mostly Old Parts And Rust". You said it yourself with this comment of it being an old, unadvanced, outdated piece of iron.

The 4.7 is new? I thought it had been around for a few years now, since the new Ram design came out in what, 94, 95? And putting out 240 hp? And to upgrade to a 5.9L, a difference of some 1.2 liters, you only get up to 250 hp, 10 more hp? Ok, I won't try to diss it too much! Is this 5.7 Hemi going to use the flat heads of yesteryear, upping compression? How much is this going to set back your wallet? If we're going to get into, "Wait till this and that comes out", then be my guess. I will wait the extra year or two for the new tri-valve in the Triton engines, where I've heard numbers of mid to high 3's in hp naturally aspirated. And no, the 5.7L Hemi with supposedly 345hp doesn't make the 5.4L, a smaller engine, using rounded off heads, making 260hp, sound slower. If anything, it makes the larger 5.9L Dodge engine sound pathetic with 250 hp!

You mention Ford's hp is all in the high rpm range?! Funny, if you look at all the numbers for Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, etc., Ford produces it's horsepower on average a grand below all the other companies. 260 hp on the 5.4L Triton comes in at 4500 rpms? And the 250 hp on the 5.9L Magnum hits at nearly 5k...?

When you played around with this Stang, where were you? At a light? On the open road...on the highway, in town? Cause if you were on an open road, BS. And I mean utter BS. The Mustang would loose you like nothing. If it was from a light up to say 30 or so, maybe 40, then yeah, that is entirely believable. Most trucks with low end torque and low set hauling gears will rock cars off the line. I had no trouble destroying Acura's and Hondas, and even a Camaro in my 86 F-250 with the 4.11's and the 351W. But that's oof the line. As soon as I'd hit 25 or 30, they'd pull hard with a ricer flyby.

 

I currently own a Lightning. You have to admit, a Dakota with a 345HP engine and a 5 speed will be an interesting piece. Dodge has not indicated when or if they will put the 5.7 in the Dakota. For now, only the big trucks, 2500/3500 are getting it.