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  #46  
Old 08-12-2009, 09:33 AM
neil 95 e350
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yeah i agree. the computer is trying to increase inj pulse to richen things up. but it can only open them for so long. larger injector are the most likely solution. but i would still do the O2 sensor - you really have no other way to see if you are in the ballpark esp when driving around.

you need to determine if your motor has an IAC vale - Idle Air Control. mine does. my BBk t-body had no air bleed holes like you describe. my V10 t-body had an air bleed port built into it that had an adj screw to set base idle speed. the V10 probably had what many EFI cars have to control idle when the car was cold - Auxiliary Air Regulator was what bosch called theirs - and i am just guessing on the V10 system.

if the hose goes to a device mounted to the upper manifold just under the t-body and there are a couple of wires going to that unit, then i gues you do have an IAC valve. i would plug all t-body holes and let the iac valve do my idle speed. plug the hose for a quick test, or check the end when the motor is running for vacuum.

i would check fuel pressure at idle, then watch it as you warm up the motor, then watch to see it stays steady as you romp on it.

neil
 
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  #47  
Old 08-27-2009, 04:21 AM
neil 95 e350
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any news??
 
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  #48  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:11 AM
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I ordered the wrong regulator, a 3-bolt bottom instead of the 2-bolt one. The 1707 BBK showed up today. I will be trying it tomorrow.

I do have an IAC valve, but when I plugged the little port on the TB, the engine really didn't like it, revving to 2000+ rpm and not settling down. When I pulled the TB off to change it back, it had sucked in the gasket between the bores where I had a tiny tear beforehand. With the TB bolted up tight, I wouldn't have thought that the tear should have mattered. Nevertheless, the engine sounded like it was wheezing and sucking air harshly, so I put it back to having the little bypass port open. It idles 1000-1100 in park, but does drop to 800ish when in drive and on the brake at a red light.

I have found that the truck runs leaner on the rear tank, that when under hard acceleration it struggles on top, and doesn't want to upshift very good at WOT, kind of hanging up. Yet I can switch to the front and it runs great, shifting firm and quickly like it should. Is this the rear fuel pump, or is there a rear filter as well?

Just for fun, doing a standing 1/4 mile, with just a 1500 rpm launch, I am running 17.4 @ 81-83 mph. I'm not 100% sure on the mph b/c I'm not sure how much my speedo is out with the 35's. When I bought the truck last year, it had 33's on, and has had 33's for several years, so I don't know it the original owner corrected it. At 6500 lbs, my hp calculator tells me that I'm putting down between 270 and 290 rwhp, depending on which speed is correct, and it's still lean, which could mean I'm still losing some hp. It also maybe higher b/c it was slightly faster when it had the 33's compred to the 35's now; I lost nearly a full second from 0-60, I never did a 1/4 test with the 33's. I will post results as I vary the pressure. The truck definitely pulls hard, it feels really good. I will be running it against some modern trucks, and posting the videos on youtube in the near future; I'll make sure to post the link.

One thing I'm wondering about, with the SD efi using the vaccuum and the O2 sensor for the AF, why couldn't you do bigger mods, and then throw in bigger injectors. If you went too big, wouldn't the computer lean it back down? Only thing is I was told that at WOT the O2 sensor doesn't do much for correction.

Why I was wondering is that say to do ported heads, a bigger cam, maybe even a hydraulic roller retrofit(if Crane gets out of bankruptcy), and then try some 30 lbers or 36 lbers and see what happens. I would at this point install a wideband O2 moniter to be sure, but would this even be possible, or am I not fully grasping the SD efi functionality.
 
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  #49  
Old 08-28-2009, 02:06 AM
neil 95 e350
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hey littlejohn, not a lot of time to comment right now. i will post more tomorrow nite. did you put a fuel pressure gauge on it? i bet the rear tank needs a better pump, prob should upgrade the front as well if you go to big injectors. anyway good to see you moving forward. i will spend some time typing real soon.

neil
 
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  #50  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:23 PM
frdstang93
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460 options

Hi everyone,

I am trying to figure out a parts/vehicles list to go down to the local pull and pay to do a mass air conversion on my 1990 FI 460 w an E4OD. Does anyone know of an existing wiring diagram for this conversion? Any comments on suggested performance parts would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks,
frdstang93
 
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  #51  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:11 PM
neil 95 e350
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frdstang93, look back in this thread and find the list of links i put up. lots of info there. i am also aware there was a thread covering your plan somewhere/someplace in the FTE forums. can't remember if i posted that link. i myself do not have what you want. i would have to go thru the linx and put one together.

neil
 
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  #52  
Old 09-01-2009, 09:52 AM
frdstang93
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neil 95 e350,
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
frdstang93
 
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  #53  
Old 09-01-2009, 11:00 AM
frdstang93
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My next question is who makes an aluminium head that will bolt up to the FI 460?

Thanks
 
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  #54  
Old 09-01-2009, 01:43 PM
neil 95 e350
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trick flow - my dream heads. their matching intake manifold has bosses cast in ready to be machined for injectors.

when the current 460 dies, i plan to do a bored and stroked BB using trick flow's heads and run a paxton or novi 5 - 6 psi supercharger. but the d**n engine i got just won't die. it's messing with my plans!!

i do have more linx but i think what you need is likely there for your conversion. lmk if i can help.
 
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  #55  
Old 09-02-2009, 01:23 AM
frdstang93
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Thanks for the info, sounds like you are wanting to do the same type of stuff that I want to do. So I take it Paxton has a Novi kit that will bolt right up, I wonder if a procharger could be made to fit?
 
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  #56  
Old 09-02-2009, 09:25 PM
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[quote=neil 95 e350;7890492]trick flow - my dream heads. their matching intake manifold has bosses cast in ready to be machined for injectors.

I thought the exhaust ports were different on the EFI heads. You'd need different headers, right?
 
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  #57  
Old 09-02-2009, 11:54 PM
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Reincarnation shows ported F3 heads w/2.19 intake/1.76 exhaust flowing 316/215 @ .600 lift; not far off the aluminum aftermarket ones, and I was wanting to check if Crane comes out of bankruptcy they showed a retrofit hydraulic roller setup, with cams in the .520-.600 range.

With a roller setup and just ported heads and a decent cam the old 460 would be a beast. Either with a California truck or an aftermarket efi, this is something I am hoping to do.
 
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  #58  
Old 09-03-2009, 01:09 AM
neil 95 e350
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frdstang: i have no expectations on finding a bolt up kit - killer if there were one... after fitting 2x200A alt setup, a belt driven supercharger would be cake.

littlejohn wrote:

I do have an IAC valve, but when I plugged the little port on the TB, the engine really didn't like it, revving to 2000+ rpm and not settling down.

<interesting, plugging the port on my TB was the only way to get the idle back down to where the IAC could control idle. and i motor idles below 800 nice and steady...then drops when the computer decides it is warmed up enuff. i think something else is wrong... is this with the big injectors? did it do this before the big injectors with this TB? did the IAC get clogged or something? make sure it is opening and flowing air?>

littlejohn wrote:

When I pulled the TB off to change it back, it had sucked in the gasket between the bores where I had a tiny tear beforehand. With the TB bolted up tight, I wouldn't have thought that the tear should have mattered. Nevertheless, the engine sounded like it was wheezing and sucking air harshly, so I put it back to having the little bypass port open. It idles 1000-1100 in park, but does drop to 800ish when in drive and on the brake at a red light.

<the tear is between the bores right?? then it does not matter as you are feeding a common plenum. the leak was not to the outside of the TB so how could that affect idle?? the tear was engine vacuum side of the throttle plates so it can only "steal" from itself. and my van sounds pretty nasty when the IAC intake port is uncovered and you are listening to idle air passing thru the IAC valve.

i would make sure my TB had the plates as closed as poss w/o them sticking or hanging up and let the IAC handle idle. then let it warm up, maybe at that point i would then adjust idle speed via the bypass port. of course on my TB i have an adjustment for the amount of air thru that bypass port.>

littlejohn wrote:

I have found that the truck runs leaner on the rear tank, that when under hard acceleration it struggles on top, and doesn't want to upshift very good at WOT, kind of hanging up. Yet I can switch to the front and it runs great, shifting firm and quickly like it should. Is this the rear fuel pump, or is there a rear filter as well?

<well there is a screen on the tank pickup, but you could have a couple of problems - tired pump, smaller lines to the tank control valves, maybe there is a separate filter for each tank after the tank but before tank1/tank2 valve, tired pump, or maybe ok pump just lower flow for the distance it must push from way out back. maybe even a voltage drop on the pump circuit that is starving the pump for power.>

littlejohn wrote:

Just for fun, doing a standing 1/4 mile, with just a 1500 rpm launch, I am running 17.4 @ 81-83 mph. I'm not 100% sure on the mph b/c I'm not sure how much my speedo is out with the 35's. When I bought the truck last year, it had 33's on, and has had 33's for several years, so I don't know it the original owner corrected it. At 6500 lbs, my hp calculator tells me that I'm putting down between 270 and 290 rwhp, depending on which speed is correct, and it's still lean, which could mean I'm still losing some hp. It also maybe higher b/c it was slightly faster when it had the 33's compred to the 35's now; I lost nearly a full second from 0-60, I never did a 1/4 test with the 33's. I will post results as I vary the pressure. The truck definitely pulls hard, it feels really good. I will be running it against some modern trucks, and posting the videos on youtube in the near future; I'll make sure to post the link.

<not the faintest idea of what my ride would do in the quarter...>

littlejohn wrote:
One thing I'm wondering about, with the SD efi using the vaccuum and the O2 sensor for the AF, why couldn't you do bigger mods, and then throw in bigger injectors. If you went too big, wouldn't the computer lean it back down? Only thing is I was told that at WOT the O2 sensor doesn't do much for correction.

<i think the answer to that is that ford programmed the computer to use an EFI map (spark timing and fuel inj pulse etc) created specifically for that engine, that tune, that vehicle. because it does NOT measure airflow quantity, it uses the measurements generated to set timing and fuel flow based on a preconstructed 3d map. so, for example, a different cam is installed. that will change the vacuum readings sent to the computer. but the computer only knows to "do this, if this, this and this." so it will look at its map and set timing and inj pulse based on the program. it doesn't really know that vacuum is low because you have lots more lobe overlap and also are flowing lots more air and need lots more fuel because it has no way to measure airflow. it generates engine run settings from its map and the inputs to the computer are just there to generate the x, y, z points on the map. as to O2 sensors, they only work when the engine is warmed up and in closed loop, so the motor is running on baseline settings stored in the computer. i don't know what area the O2 sensor input actually affects the mixture setting portion of the program. hell maybe anytime the throttle moves more than 10 degrees the O2 sensor input is ignored until the throttle returns to a fixed state for x amount of time. might be more on this thought in some of the linx i posted... >

littlejohn wrote:
Why I was wondering is that say to do ported heads, a bigger cam, maybe even a hydraulic roller retrofit(if Crane gets out of bankruptcy), and then try some 30 lbers or 36 lbers and see what happens. I would at this point install a wideband O2 moniter to be sure, but would this even be possible, or am I not fully grasping the SD efi functionality.

<go to this link and read the first two paragraphs
http://eecperformance.com/mafconversion.html

i am putting in a wideband sensor this week as well just to watch how things happen. if i had the $1k or so i would convert my system using this system in a heartbeat.
http://wmsracing.com/wmsweb/sds.html
this does everything needed to be like a mass air system but does not require a MAF sensor (which must be calibrated to the injectors)>
 
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  #59  
Old 09-03-2009, 01:17 AM
neil 95 e350
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thanx for the posts on heads. i was not aware of them. maybe i just saw the trick flows and lost my mind right there :-))

take a long look at the stuff at wms racing. lots of ability to change engine parts and not have to update injection parts, just reprogram. does require an external tranny computer for the E4OD. i like the baumann piece alot

neil
whose van finally runs after one year of engineering new stuff into it... woo hoo!!!
 
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  #60  
Old 09-03-2009, 08:42 AM
neil 95 e350
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hey oldracerguy... now that you mention it...somewhere in the back of my mind i seem to remember that trick flow uses a chevy exh port pattern on the ford heads. so yes, that means you spend more money.

neil
 
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