I didn't say you were unmotivated. I agreed with you that you were unwilling (your own words).

I'm happy with life and satisfied with the goals I've reached so far but not content to sit still. I have 1 month, 3 month, 1 year, 2 year, 5 year and 10 year goals. It's what drives me.

There are a great many people in unions who are protected by the unions from their own problems. Doesn't mean its everyone, but the stereo-types didn't come about for no reason.

Never said you were lazy or unmotivated. I said you were not willing to do what they did, which you readily stated. Apparently your motivations lie in a different direction from theirs, or mine, and that's fine -- but it still doesn't change how I feel about union membership as a group. I have nothing against you personally or what you do for a living, not even in the smallest amount. From what I can see in the forums, you're a nice, likeable, usually laid back, intelligent, hard working guy who's proud of what he does and that's commendable.

Its the entire union setup that I have a problem with. I can't help but get charged about it. The biggest problem with discussing the generalized problems with unions is the members often seem to have a hard time separating their personal situation from the overall situation. Its like congress: all other representatives are creating pork, abusing the system and doing a bad job, but your/my own representative is merely looking out for me when he spend tax dollars. Or a bad girlfriend... the guy's friends see it far better than the guy does.

Peace....

 

You are correct sir, sorry for getting charged up. I currently work with a person is unable/unwilling to perform the entire daily task of a carrier. This person gets way too much assistance from the rest of us and this person is coddled by the union. It makes me see red sometimes especially when I'm called upon to render assistance.

Likewise I've seen management railroad solid emplyees and were it not for the union, these good people may have become unemployed.

I always value your well thought out input and articulate nature.

Tim

 

I had a great career for years selling T-shirts on the beach. I have also decided to better myself, I'm going back to school to learn how to become a Wal-mart greeter hee hee!!!!!

 

'ol Wendell sold T-shirts along Lake Erie's beach...

But didn't sell too many, cuz they cost 30 bucks each...

The reason they cost so much is...doncha know...

They were union made....oh no...oh no!

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Wendell.

 

Haha that was hilarious Bill!

 

I am a member of the IBEW who works, or rather worked, in the Alberta Tar Sands. I have heard all the anti-union arguments. Could I work non-uni9on? Yes, but I make more money, and have much better benefits working union than I could ever have woirking non-union. Most of the non-union companies tend to be smaller, some of them go bankrupt more often, possibly as part of a business plan. There is a company that has done this in the past to avoid paying workers what this company owes them. A friend of mine lost $2000 in the earlky 1980s when this company went bankrupt. The union tried to collect the money, but was unable to. I doubt that my friend would have been able to do better trying to collect, and he was not the only one ripped off by this outfit. That company is still operating and has never tried to repay their workers for the forced loan. There are many other non-union companies that have pulled fast ones on people working for them. I am semi-retired, but I enjoy my union pension, my medical benefits and the friendship of my fellow union members. Oh yes, the leadership of my union are not socialists; many of them vote Coservative, which is roughly similar to the Republicans in the USA. I don't think anybody has accused the GOP of being socialist, at least anybody who lives in the real world.
Lucky

 

After reading and joining in on this discussion of how bad unions apparently are to some, I really fail to see how management and the like are any better. It seems to me that some are basing there negative decisions of unions on a few bad apples so to speak/write. You know the saying; a few bad apples...! So, I guess I can do the same regarding management, fair's fair right!?!

Much of what I read and hear via media and on the street is negativity toward union workers who are making a somewhat better living than a "growing" many non-unioners out there. Only now/lately is the media starting to focus more on these cushy sweet deals white collar workers and upper management are and have been getting while they drive their company's into the ground. You know million$ in bonuses on top of sweet salaries, etc.....upper 1-10 whatever % controls 75-90 whatever %+/- of the overall wealth in the US, etc....

I'm certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer but, that flies in the face of logic and/or common sense to me!

Based on my personal history in the blue collar workforce, with hindsight being 20/20, I've easily come to the conclusion that management is worse when it comes corruption, milking it for what it's worth and the like. Unions wages, benefits, corruption, etc are a pittance when compared to the corp world's greed, corruption, and other bs that's just starting to come to light.

 

HA HA, that was cute Bill!!! You have a merry christmass and a wonderfull new year buddy!!! May God bless you and that you touch!!!

 

Damn is this off topic!

 

Yeah, these post can take on a life of there own.

 

I worked in a truck plant in Arlington TX during the Christmas shutdown in 1998. GM was changing over from 1/2 ton pickups to 3/4 and 1 tons. I happened to read the shhet for the UAW workers at the work station I helped change over. The people working at that station worked 58 seconds every minute. I have never worked that much as an electrician anywhere. How much do the folks work who criticise the UAW for fat? If you work as hard as the UAW workers at that plant, then I think you might have a complaint about UAW cushy jobs. Certainly, the UAW workers make fairly high wages, but I think they deserve every penny.
Lucky

 

My attempt at either killing this thing or making it go even more off topic...We are all kind of getting caught up in so called hot button topics, i.e., unions are bad, the Big 3 are run by morons, the foreigners build better stuff, etc. There is a grain of truth in all of this but also a lot of hype. Bottom line- the Big 3 can't die. In order for our economy to survive somebody has to get out of bed in the morning and go out and build something that you can see and touch and somebody out there has to be able to afford to buy it. Our economy can not be based on all of us buying and selling insurance policies and mortgages to each other then jumping in a foreign car to drive to Wal-Mart to buy Chinese goods. Doesn't anyone get this? Watch the news and see how well this has been working out for us lately.

Now I am not anti-free trade, but there are far more economic issues than wages involved in auto manufacturing. Take Research & Development for example. Strong R & D makes a company strong 10, 20, even 50 or 100 years from now. Do you think that overseas mfg'ers with plants here do their engineering and research here? Do you think they spend their huge R & D budgets here? Do they have their brain trust here? No, they have them at their home base, and don't mistake a test track here in North America with a late pre-production model buzzing around it as R & D.

Henry Ford's early pre-Model T sucess made his company flush with cash and he spent a lot on R & D. The casting technology of the jacketed block with seperate cylinder head Model T engine is still in use 100 years later as are many of the metalurgical advancements. Does everyone remember who first brought the V block engine to the masses, no small feat in itself. Heck, we even talked about the technologically solid for it's day 300 six getting knocked off by Toyota! Bottom line is that as we spend more on foreign makes our domestic builders have less money to set aside for R & D, making them even less competitive.

And let us not forget that big ugly word- profit. Guess where the profit from the sale of foreign goods goes, right back to the home office! There has been a lot of media and political hype about greedy execs living like French monarchs and that is shamefull. But the bottom line is that we cannot lump the stigma of the greed of some together with profit. Profit is a good thing, it is what keeps your next paycheck from bouncing and keeps the sign over your employer's door next year. Profits going back overseas do none of us any good.

Lately the spirit of giving has amounted to WalMart giving a couple of hundred bucks to some local organization then hanging a billboard sized fake check documenting it over the checkout area. Does anyone remember that from 1956 until when the Bill Gates' of the world came along and then Ford stock tanked the one the biggest charitable organizations in the World was the Ford Foundation? It was funded by the profits of Ford Motors, so as you bought a Ford product, you unknowingly were making a charitable contribution. Anybody heard of a Toyota or a Cheng Shin Foundation doing any good around here lately?

I wish I heard or could dig something up about the tax implications, but it is probably a fair guess that there are income tax advantages for a foreign mfg'er to set up an assembly plant here. If memory serves me correctly, many of those local governments of those southern communities that host these foreign assembly plants made huge property tax concessions and provided interest free loans, etc.

Last but not least, let us not forget pride. This is our home team struggling for their very existence and the best we can do is bash them? Our friends and neighbors work in these plants, engineer the products, and run the business (for every single greedy exec there are a thousands of honest and hard working in upper and middle management). Shame on us! They have made mistakes and blunders but who amongst us is perfect? Obviously they do not have a Svengali like hold on us. They have produced products that we wanted in recent years and we bought them. This year energy went nuts and the economy tanked and suddenly we realized we don't WANT or NEED these large vehicles and we bolted from them and blamed them for our own consumptive greed. Well guess what, no auto maker can have a new model on the showroom floor in months to meet our fickle wants, not in these over regulated times. We have got to stand by our own!

Sorry for such a long rant. Oh, and a very Happy Holidays to all!!

 

Thank you for that! In my cushy union work place, the time clock is electronic and you swipe your time badge for different functions that you may perform or for different postal routes that we may work on. This is a standard time clock measuring 1/100th of a minute. Each click is recorded and stored for historical data and is typically used for various reasons. Then again, delivering mail isn't assembly line work. Once we leave the office we have minimal supervision, (if your worth your salt you shouldn't need any) and the clock is the only thing that keeps the sick, lame and lazy employees honest. Thank God for my union. For those of you who don't like inions, your in a for a long 4-8 years.

Tim

 

The Model T (1908-1927) made Ford tons of cash, previous models didn't sell worth a hoot. The T used the exact same powertrain from day one till the day it was discontinued in 1927.

The Model T engine was designed and built (1908-1913) by the Dodge Brothers, who owned a large Detroit machine shop and were original investors in FoMoCo. Ford himself had little to do with the T's engine development.

Ford bought out the Dodge Brothers in 1913, they then took the millions they made from the sale, and started their own car company.

Ford was ill-prepared to introduce a new model after the T was discontinued. In fact, he shut down the factory for 9 months after the T was discontinued in order to design and build the Model A. This fiasco cost Ford over 3,000 of his dealers, as they had nothing new to sell, so they switched to other makes. mostly from GM and Chrysler.

Ford had almost no R&D, engineering, or styling divisions. Henry ran the show with an iron fist till he was replaced as prez by "The Deuce" (Henry Ford II) in 1945.

This was brought upon by the War Production Board, as FoMoCo was close to bankruptcy in 1944, due to Ford himself being senile, and allowing Harry Bennett, head of Ford's in-house security force, officially called the Service Department, to run the company's affairs.

Ford's only child..Edsel died in 1943 of bleeding ulcers, and what many said...of a broken heart, as Henry belittled him in public every chance he got, while praising Harry Bennett.

If it wasn't for Edsel, FoMoCo prolly would have gone out of business by the early 1930's.

Edsel was behind the development of the Model A, and every other new Ford thru 1942, every Lincoln beginning in 1922, and was the father of the new Mercury, introduced in 1939.

The first Flathead V8's were introduced in 1915 by Cadillac and Cole. Cadillac also introduced the first OHV V12 & V16 in 1930 and the first modern OHV V8 (1949).

The affordable Ford V8 of 1932 brought the engine to the masses, but both Olds (Viking) and Buick had V8's in 1930/31. This was a unique engine design that used one head gasket that also served as the intake manifold gasket.

Other companies prior to 1932 also had V8's, Chevrolet offered a V8 circa 1916.

 

Re: "...Ford himself had little to do with the Model T's engine development."

"...The Model N's four cylinder engine had been an innovation in the low priced field, but the engine itself had not been that simple. Each enclosed cylinder had been cast separately, then bolted together. Henry Ford's idea for the Model T was that the core of the power unit be one single casting that contain all four cylinders. After (Charlie) Sorensen struggled for some time with the practical difficulties of this, Henry came up with a further suggestion: why not slice the block across the top?"

"Ford: The Men and the Machine" page 97-98

Point is moot...point of post was that we have to support our own economy first!

Happy Holidays!