Hey folks, sent over here by my 6.0 Diesel p/u friends, appreciate any help you can give me, I know about a thimble full about towing heavy stuff. I did buy my diesel f250 FX4 Crew SB automatic 5 years ago thinking I would buy a 5er or travel trailer, but have not had time until now, I just retired. I would like to do this right, so here goes: my reading shows me I can hitch pull 12500#, and 5th wheel tow 10600#, that would be trailer weight. The notes in the manual also show a combined weight of 20,000# in both cases. Do these match your understanding? One salesman is telling me these are ballpark figures, I guess I don't believe that. I think it is odd that the 5th wheel figure is lower, seems bass ackward to me, but again what do I know?

So I should not be looking at 14k# 35 foot toyhaulers, right?

If I sound a little lost, you got it right.

Thanks for any help, much appreciated.

 

That sound's backward to me to, mine bumper tows 15k and 5th tows around 18k.

 

According to Fords tow brochure:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...D_F250_350.pdf

You can tow 12,500 conventionally and 12,700 with a fifthwheel.

The biggest problem with a fifthwheel is pin weight. This generally runs 17-23% of the total trailer weight.

Weigh your truck (get separate reading on each axle) with all persons, gear, and full fuel, that you would normally be hauling while towing. Now you know how much your truck really weighs and how much your rear axle is supporting. Your truck probably has a rear axle rating (GRAR) of around 6100#(normally set by the tire ratings installed at the factory). Take your rear axle weight and add 150# for the fifthwheel hitch, and what you have left is how much pin weight you can haul.

You will probably find that your going to limited in overall trailer weight to under 12k Gross Trailer Weight.

You can fudge these figures some with different tires & suspension mods. Your door sticker is a performance rating by Ford as equipped from the factory. DOT goes by tire size and legal licensing (tonnage paid for).

Good luck

 

C.F. is exactly right. When the manufacturers rate their trucks, the ratings are for completely empty stripped down basic trucks. They don't take into account options (that add weight to the truck) that are added to your truck. In my opinion and experience, it's always better to have a little extra cushion in there and stay under the maximum ratings from the truck manufacturer.

Also, don't necessarily believe the pin weights you read in the RV brochures. They are typically understated and I've seen them off by as much as 500 to 1000 pounds. They are much like auto manufacturers in that they give the pin weight before options, gear, fluids, etc. Research everything before you sign on the dotted line and don't necessarily believe everything dealers tell you. They are in business to sell RV's. I know what my truck will and won't tow safely and legally and I've had salesmen tell me some real crap over the years.

One other thing - Lots of people will tell you about all of the mammoth loads they've towed over the years kind of like those stories about who caught the biggest fish. Stay under the manufacturers ratings for your safety and everybody else's. If you are in a wreck and over your GCWR, you could be liable if someone is hurt or killed.

Just my $.02 worth. Good luck with your purchase and your travels!

 

I`ve got a ?
My 5er is 20 ft but my hitch is 24k . Is the 24k considered the pin weight?

Hanklin

 

Not sure what you mean. You're saying that your 5er is 20ft. so I assume you mean it is 20 feet long? And do you mean your hitch is rated at 24k or your hitch weight is 2400lbs.? Hitch weight and pin weight are the basically the same thing just different wording. The hitch / pin weight is the portion of the trailer weight that is being supported / carried by the tow vehicle.

The best way I've found to get the pin or hitch weight is to take the rig to a commercial scale. There are several different ways to do it. One way with a travel trailer is to pull it up to the scale and drop the jack or jacks on the scale with the rest of the trailer off the scale. You can do this empty and loaded to get an accurate hitch weight. A fifth wheel is a little different story. You can weigh your truck loaded, etc. Then hook up the 5er and pull just the truck onto the scale. Subtract the weight of the truck from the weight you got when you weighed with the 5er hooked up.

Commercial scales are good and several friends of mine use the local feed and farm supply store's scales or the local rock quarry.

 

sorry
5er is 20 ft long and hitch is rated at 24k,guess I`ll go to scales this weekend.Thanks


Hanklin

 

Hitch rated at 24k. That is what is on the actual hitch correct. I would then assume your hitch is rated to pull 24k.

 

Thanks for the info and replies. I weighed my truck at a landscape rock place a few weeks ago, it weighed in at 7500# with my fat **** on board. Rear axle rating is 6100#. I did not get a rear axle weight only, didn't think of it.

So here are the facts I have so far:

Gross combined capacity rating: 20,000#
5th wheel weight max weight: 12700#
Pull trailer weight max weight: 12500#

I would look for a 5er that weighs in around 12K# max, I don't think I will add 7000 pounds of gas, food, water, etc, in weight to that so I should be fine considering the overall weight.

Am I thinking this through correctly?

How do you finalize pin weight if you don't own it?

I am also thinking it would be a lot less challenging to just buy an F350 dually!

 

The dually will tend to be more stable but can in fact decrease your trailer tow capacity unless you buy a 2005 or later with the Tow Boss package. The advantage to the dually is the wider rear track and the ability to spread the weight over four rear tires rather than two. The downside to this is that the dual rear tires add more weight and rolling resistance. Below are the links for the 2004 and the 2005 F-350 for comparison.

Also, don't under estimate the amount of cargo and people you may haul. A 5er with a GVWR of 12,000 will theoretically leave you 700 pounds to play with but you're going to be flirting with the maximum weight you're truck is designed to tow. I have found the same problems looking for a new 5er. The ones I like with the features I want exceed the maximum capacity for my truck so I'm soon going to be in the market for a new truck.

Another problem you sometimes face is that different states have different regulations regarding allowable weights and differ in how they view your maximum capacity. To be on the safe side and to prevent unwanted tickets or worse, I'd try to stay at least 500 to 1000 pounds below maximum capacity. You will leave yourself some room to play with and be safe and legal.

If you opt to buy a dually, I would try to get something 2005 or newer for the extra capacity. You'll see that the 2004 dually actually has a lower fifth wheel capacity than your f-250. On the 2005, the F-350 dually, even without the Tow Boss package, has a fifth wheel capacity of 15,600 lbs. With the Tow Boss, it jumps to 18,100 lbs. The F-250 is rated at 15,400.

It's alot to digest but do your homework and you'll be fine. Good luck!


https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...r_F250_350.pdf

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...5_F250-350.pdf

 

Thanks Powerstroker, but I am still a little confused. If the Gross Combined Weight Rating is 20000#, doesn't that give you 8000# more to add in weight to a 5er if you have a gross trailer weight unit that is 12000#? Or is the GCWR inclusive of the weight of the truck, which in my case weighs in at 7500#?

If this sounds dumb, oh well, this is the only way I can flush out the whole story on this issue.

 

The GCWR is the combined weight of the truck, the trailer, and all the contents of both. It is the Gross Combined Weight Rating. Therefore, you have to take into consideration the weight of the truck, occupants, and gear, etc. when you look at the trailer weight. One other thing I forgot to mention is that you need to be careful of the rear axle weight rating as well. The rear axle should be rated somewhere around 6100 lbs. on your truck so take that into consideration also. You can take your truck to the scales and weigh each axle independently. After you weigh the truck at each end, it should give you an idea of how much weight is currently on your rear axle and what you can add to that before going over the rated weight. It's only a suggestion but if you do this, I would recommend weighing the truck with the people and gear you plan on hauling when you're towing. This way you will have a more accurate rear axle weight and left over capacity.

 

Ok, so with my truck at 7500#, and a GCWR of 20k#, I have 12500# to work with, that is for the trailer weight, the 5th wheel hitch and any contents of the trailer. Rear axle rating is 6084 on mine...

So I should be looking for 5ers in the maybe 10,000# area, the Rhino is 1500# anyway, leaving 1000# for water weight, etc.

 

as powerstroke72 says...the GCWR is a COMBINED weight of BOTH the truck weight and trailer weight.

Keep in mind that your 7500#'s was with ONLY you in there. Most find that camping alone is kind of boring so if you plan on hauling folks and their stuff with you INSIDE the truck that weight will go up.

There are many 'ratings' on our vehicles and the very confusing part is what is a 'recommended' rating versus a 'legal' rating. That has been debated since Al Gore invented the internet and actually well before around the campfires I'm sure!

If you look at your door frame or jamb sticker you will see a couple of numbers that are of interest here.

1) GVWR is the weight that FORD is telling you is the MOST your truck can weigh when you load it with people, gear AND hitch or pin weight. So take that 7500#'s and add in your family and gear and you will likely add ~300-500#'s more if you have teenage kids. If it is just you and the misses...you will be better off here. NOW you have to figure in how much PIN weight you are going to ask your truck to also carry. A 12,000# 5'r could add 20% as pin to your truck for an additional 2400#'s so you will very likely be AT your trucks GVWR of 9900# when hitched...now that isn't necessarily a bad thing...(here's where the debate comes in)...if you know you will be over 10,000#'s on the truck...then pay for tags that are at least 10,000#'s and you will be okay...I can't tell you how many dually trucks I see in Indiana with 7,000# license tags...they are OVERWEIGHT just rolling down the road let alone hitched to anything!!!

2) GAWR is the weight that Ford is telling you is the MOST you can carry on your axles when you inflate your tires to the pressure on the door sticker (check the load rating charts if you don't believe it)...now if you are serious about hauling a 12,000# 5'r with a SRW 3/4 ton...well I'd be inflating your tires to 80psi regardless of what is on the door sticker. But the GAWR is something you need to monitor closely. However here's something I found out. The rear axles as rated from Sterling have an at ground rating of 7000#'s which incidently is what our two E rated tires at 80psi are rated for...the thing you need to remember is that the SPRINGS on the rear of your truck are only technically rated to what Ford rates the GAWR. The springs are the limiting factor there since the wheels, tires and axle can carry more.

These next ones are likely NOT on your door sticker...but still important to this discussion...

3) GCWR as stated above is a COMBINED weight that your truck and trailer together can weigh. I have yet to figure someones weight situation where there was a family involved that they didn't hit the GVWR or GAWR on their truck BEFORE hitting the GCWR. It is almost impossible to max out GCWR and NOT hit something before. Here's my case in point. My Excursion has a GCWR of 20,000#'s it has a GVWR of 8900#'s and a rear GAWR of 5250#'s (but I have the SAME rear axle as you with a 7000# at ground rating so SPRINGS are my weak link). I added a Roadmaster Active Suspension (RAS) which adds ~2000#'s of rear spring capacity. My tires and wheels are rated the same as yours...When I hitch up my 9000# travel trailer (it is ONLY 9000#'s mind you)...I have 1100#'s of tongue weight...my rear axle as verified by the scale is 5400#'s. My GVW on the Ex is 9000#'s and my GCW is 17,000#'s. So as you can see I am slightly over on my GVWR and GAWR but no where near GCWR. Am I worried about being slightly over on the two ratings...no...based on the fact that my axle and wheel ratings per DOT are fine I'm okay with that. And given the fact that a PSD Ex has a GVWR of 9200#'s with the same brakes as me...I'm fine with my numbers.

My point is that GCWR is the last number you normally exceed. Balancing ratings is NEVER an easy thing...however many folks blindly choose the one that gets them the most towing but few truly understand the details behind these ratings...they are CONFUSING to say the least.

4) MAX tow rating is a MYTHICAL rating. You would have to have a STRIPPED down vehicle with a 150# driver to achieve the MAX set by a manufacturer. My Excursion has a MAX tow rating of 11,000#'s and I'm maxing out two of my numbers and ONLY towing 9000#'s...

Sorry to throw all this at you but the numbers certainly are hard to decipher to say the least...

I would think that a 12,000# 5'r on your stock truck would be asking a bit much unless you at least upgraded some of your rear suspension...and even then...you need to monitor the rear axle weight to make sure you don't exceed 6800 or 7000#'s.

Good luck,
Joe.

 

don't forget ALL liquids. water, fuel, food, batteries, gen set. remember, if you get weighed by dot during travel, they weigh complete unit LOADED!!!!!