The outside of my right front tire wears faster than all other tires so I went to get it aligned. The guy informs me that he cannot align it and get rid of the tire wear because I have too much camber, 4 degrees on one side, 5 on the other. Recommends I go to another shop and have the axle beams bent, he doesn't have the equipment.

Before I do that, thought I'd better check with you guys. A couple of years ago I changed springs because the front of the truck (81 F100, 4.9L) was leaning. Instead of replacing springs with standard springs, I went with the Heavy Duty springs; this seems to have been a mistake.

I do not recall how the camber was at the time (but the lean went away). What do you guys think, would getting some standard springs get my camber to acceptable level?

How much stiffer are the HD springs than the standard? (I have no A/C) Lots?

Thanks in advance.
Raul

 

Yeah, getting standard springs would bring it closer. You can get camber adjustment nuts that will allow 3 degrees of adjustment. 4 and 5 is really out of wack. with the adjustment, you can get it closer but there isn't anyway to adjust it that much. It says right on the I-beam not to bend it so i am not sure if that is a good idea, i dont have anything else to add so i'll let someone else take it from here.


Primary rig is:
95' F-150 EB 300/6 5 spd with 4" Superlift, MSD, Ram Air, Gibson Exhaust, 32" BFG Muds
NEW PICS IN MY GALLERY!! :-)


Then theres:
88' F-250 Superduty 351 + c6
95' Mercury Cougar 4.6L V-8
80' E-350 300/6 and a
3 spd column shifter baby. Top speed, 65mph, Go Baby Go!

The newest addition to the Ford family is a 99' Mustang GT 4.6L

 

Correction.

My Camber is 3.1 degrees on the left; 3.4 degrees on the right. I looked at the printout after I got home; maybe the guy said 4 and 5 just to make a point; or maybe he forgot, he wasn't looking at the sheet when he was talking to me.

I'm gathering that standard springs will bring me pretty close to the specs. The guy did say that if I got to 1 degree I should have no problem.

Thanks for the pointer on bending; maybe I'll just get new springs, about 80 bucks I think, and let it go at that.

Thanks

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-Apr-02 AT 08:19 PM (EST)]I dunno, a bunch of people level these trucks out without bending stock parts. I'm not saying I know how to do it, or the parts involved, but companies do sell both leveling springs and leveling kits that keep total front lift under 2 inches, so surely all these people buying them aren't going to get their parts bent.

Some lifts on the front require new drop-brackets for the Radius arm bushings... but I am a bit amazed simply putting heavy duty, instead of 3 to 4 inch lift, front springs would require anything all that special.

I'd try a similar post in the proper year truck forum, or the 187-1996 one. (I'm going to be watching these posts since my hope is to somewhat level out my truck's front end, too.)

 

Don't bend the axles...take it to a good shop and get ball joint adjustment nuts installed. They're normally about 100 bucks a piece installed but its the right way to do it.
Ryan

 

from BLUECOLLAR
https://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/DCForumID39/1158.html

"Hey guys,I'm new to this site.Until 2 years ago, for 15 years I was a front end and suspension mechanic for Ford. While your problem may be contributed by weak coil springs, that problem can easily be taken care of by getting the adjustable camber/caster sleeves put the front end. Is your truck a 2wd or 4wd? 2WD's are a little easier to figure out.
Most independant shops aren't too good at these, because you have to figure out which one is the right one for your application. I have seen some shops heat and bend the radius arms rather than simply replacing the sleeves. These arms are not suppose to be heated!Seeing how Fords sleeves start at 1/2 degree and go to 1 1/2 and that your controling camber and caster at the same time. (theres some aftermarket ones out there that go way up to 2 1/4 or more) "

Granted, that may not be what you're looking for since you have a lift, but he does say to not bend anything.

Surely there must be a good and quick fix for leveling out a front end on a two wheel drive whose camber is in need of 4 to 5 degrees adjustment... but through all of my searching this very common question rarely gets a satisfactory answer (in fact I haven't read one yet that satisfies my hope to just install front leveling springs on my 6 cylinder).

I think I'm going to try 351 engine springs, which would be heavy duty for the 6 cylinder I guess. Raul, when you got "heavy duty" springs, did you get them for Fords in general (that would mean they are ehavy duty for a V-8), or did you get heavier duty ones than the six cylinder came with? I'm guessing the real heavy duty, or leveling (all leveling coils I find for these years 2wd trucks specify they are for V-8's only) ones are just too much for the 6 cylinder trucks (though I'm still hoping they aren't).

 

I bought mine from Wrenchhead.com when they did that sort of thing; I don't think they do that anymore. Carparts.com is basically the same thing. The Moog model CC818 is standard (I think they call it regular) for my F100; the CC820 is the heavy duty. But on a heavier vehicle, the CC820 would be regular, the CC822 would be heavy duty; in other applications the 822 would be regular ... on and on.

For a good example go to Carparts.com and look up the springs for an 81 F150 super cab with a 351 engine. You will see springs ranging from CC818 thru CC824; whether the spring is desingated as heavy duty or regular depends (I think) on engine, air conditioning, wheel base, cab type, etc.

I replaced my springs because my truck was leaning. Since the CC820, (HD for my application) was cheaper than the regular; PLUS the mistaken notion that heavy duty has to be better than regular, I opted for the HD --- never thinking that the weight of my no-frills truck would not be enough to compress the springs, and that failure to compress gives me the extra camber -- which is not 4-5 degrees like I said originally (I have perfected the art of making mistakes) but about 3 (see prev. post).

My truck doesn't have a lift, it's stock -- but I think the springs are too heavy (stiff) for my truck.

Unfortunately, I threw my standard (original) springs away before I noticed my camber; so now I gotta buy a new set. I don't now what I'll do with this HD set (which are standard to someone else). I couldn't have used my old ones (one was lower than the other), but I could have sent my new ones back and gotten the right part.

But hey, I'm the last guy to ask for adivice; remember I'm the one that screwed up.

If anyone sees errors in my logic, by all means, speak up --- er, er, type up.

Hope this helps.
Raul

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-Apr-02 AT 06:01 PM (EST)]Well, with all due respect, you simply have to have some front end "lift" compared to a normal truck with normal springs, or your camber wouldn't be so out. With 3 degrees I would start searching for some of those adjustable camber/caster sleeves that were talked about. Again, if V-8 trucks can level out their front ends with springs that lift 1.5" to 2", then your wise choice (you introduced and taught me about our trucks' springs - thanks!) of only moving up one spring level surely has to be able to be handled without too much problem.

I know the local old-time, low-tech but highly experienced alignment shop I took mine to (for the regular springs, but after installing Energy Suspension polyurethane radius arm bushings) assured me that moving up to V-8 springs, or V-8 springs with air conditioning, would be able to be adjusted right with the pieces they had lying around. Now After reading all the leveling posts I could around here, I'm just not positive they were right, but they did level-out their own 4x4 F-150 with the springs from a heavier model, and they like FOrd trucks, so I'm hoping they know.

Again, these guys do the entire alignment manually (none of that laser stuff), and they align cars and trucks that newer shops with lasers mess up on... so that kinda tells me that picking the right alignment shop - one with years of experience instead of (or with) high tech equipment - is important. These guys couldn't give me a printout of my alignment if I paid them $100 extra to do it, but they get it right nearly every time (that I know of) (it is the only alignment shop we recommend to our service station customers).

Best of luck, and please keep us informed.

 

Please forgive the length of the treatise.

I started this thread with a legitimate question, and now it looks like I was more concerned than I needed to be. In an effort to allay my feeling that I may have been crying Wolf, I feel compelled to provide the results of reading your responses, taking a closer look at my tires, looking in my Ford shop manual, and looking closely at the readings from the alignment shop.

GammaDriver has an excellent point, if I have a camber of 3 degrees, I must have some sort of lift; this is true whether I intended to create a lift or not. Makes sense, if the spring causes greater separation between my I beam and frame, and the I-beam pivots, the angle of my wheel has to change.

The shop manual provides a table that indicates acceptable camber at various ride heights. Ride height is measured between the base of the spring tower and the I-beam.

The table starts with a ride height of 2 inches, where camber should be between -3 and -0.5 degree, those are negative signs in front of the numbers, not dashes in the text. The greatest lift indicated in the table is a ride height of 4.75 inches where camber may range from 1.5 to 4 degrees.

I doubt I have a 4 inch lift (I’ll measure this weekend); but the point is that the 3.4 degree camber I have is not WAY out of specs, as I had originally thought.

I guess what made me think that I was way out was the technician’s comment that he could not align my truck until I got to at-most 1 degree camber and his recommendation that I go have my beams bent. Thanks to those of you that commented not to bend them; I also note that my shop manual has in upper case, big bold letters: DO NOT BEND OR TWIST THE I-BEAMS TO CORRECT CAMBER OR CASTER. I suspect (hope) that if I had contacted the shop he recommended, they would have said, No, don’t do that.

I have also taken a closer look at my tires and the alignment shop printout. I don’t think my tire wear is due to the camber (although it is noticeable), I think it’s from the toe-in.

Left tire (3.1 degree camber, and negative 0.35 inch toe in) has very, very slight extra wear on the inside. You would not even notice if you weren’t looking for it. Right tire (3.4 degree camber, and .81 inch toe-in) has noticeably faster wear on the very outside edge. From looking at pictures of tire wear patterns (and these numbers) I am concluding that camber is not my problem; that tow-in reading on the right side looks major. (For those of you wondering why the toe is so far off: I recently took out my manual steering box and added power steering -- obviously the pitman arms are not identical).

Maybe what the technician meant was that that he could not guarantee even tire wear; but what he said was that with that much camber, he could not align it. Obviously, I need a second opinion; I don’t think that I’ll ever get to 1 degree, and apparently, I don’t need to.

I have also found that the camber cannot be adjusted on this truck; I have the forged radius arm and kingpins. The adjustments that others were suggesting can only me made on trucks with the stamped radius arm and ball joints -- the adjusting nuts or shims are installed at the ball joints.

So I will measure my ride height this weekend. I’m NOT gonna get new springs. And I’ll find some shop to do my toe adjustments and tell them not to worry about the camber, even if they will not guarantee even tire wear. I only have one tire that wears weird, and I suspect the excessive tow-in is the cause.

Thanks for all your comments and help. I certainly learned a lot with this exchange, I hope you have too, or at least enjoyed it. Sorry for long post.

Raul

 

OK, here's the verdict: I do not have excess camber.

I measured my ride height this weekend: 4.75 inches on left, 4.25 inches on right. My shop manual shows that for a ride height of 4.25 to 4.75 (what a coincidence) proper camber angle is 1.5 to 4.0 degrees. So mine is within specs.

I get toe adjusted and leave it at that.

Thanks guys.
Raul

 

Thanks for the update!



Later.

 

FYI
TO ALL IT MAY CONCERN. I PUT A 2" LIFT IN MY 86 F150 4X4 AND INSTALLED CAMBER ADJUSTMENT BUSHINGS. GETTING THE CAMBER TO 1 DEGREE POSITIVE WITH A 2 DEGREE BUSHING, I STILL CHEWED UP MY TIRES IN JUST A FEW MONTHS!! WITH TIRES AT $100 EA THAT KINDA SUCKED, SO IM LOOKING FOR BUSHINGS THAT WILL PUT THE CAMBER AT ZERO. MY AUTO TECH INSTRUCTOR SAYS ANYTHING 1 DEGREE OR GREATER WILL EAT YOUR TIRES!

 

I think I'm going to go for the 302 V-8 springs (the next step up from my straight six springs) instead of buying "lift" springs when I do it. I'm thinking the lift from such springs might be only about an inch, or a little less, and hopefully that will be able to be accounted for during the alignment.

 

the pivot bushings are probably worn out. this can cause excessive camber.

look into replaceing them.


I have a solid axle and driving with .07 and 1.5 degrees camber and I am not seeing any signs of wear on my tires. My detroit in the rear axle is eating them up faster.