I found a used banks turbo from a local junkyard. The only problem is they no longer have the truck that it was removed from. The pieces that they have are the turbo, turbo inlet casting, and downpipe. Will I need to purchase the rest of the sidewinderkit to be able to install this turbo on my 94 7.3L IDI with factory turbo. Or can I simply replace my turbo with the banks unit? Also, what kind of HP gains could I expect from a banks turbo? I know they advertise upto 83HP gain, but I assume this is when upgrading a N/A to a banks turbo. Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bill

 

the 94 uses an ats style system. it is completely different than the banks system.

 

wgerson,
Welcome to FTE and the IDI diesel forum.

For less money you can get a turbo outlet flange and three inch downpipe from ATS.

That will put you right up there with what the Banks kit does.

Ford re-engineered the ATS system, used a smaller downpipe which was smashed flat on the stock 93 and 94 turbo IDI engine.
That combined with the restrictive stock exhaust and muffler are why the IDI turbo only made 5 HP more than the NA engine did.

 

From what I've researched THIS is the way to go.
Cheaper and easier too!

If you do go with the Banks I want your ATS!
I'll set it up on my 6.9L.
Let me know.

 

If you wan't I can scan a blowup image from my banks manual so you can see all the parts.

You will need the 2 or 3 other little brackets that bolt to each head to help support the turbo. One bolts to the back of the drivers head, same for the passenger side and the 3rd bolts sideways to one of the intake plentum bolts by the glowplug relay. You will need to relocate your tranny dipstick tube for the auto as well. I really don't think theres that much extra you need. Most of the parts are minor and can be ordered from banks seperate (I think) which I have a complete parts list of it as well. Oh, you also need the little oil pipe that goes from the bottom of the turbo into the vally pan with the rubber garmet.

Anyway, If you want, I can scan it. I will get it tomarrow night cause its in my tool box, not here. I don't know much about the ats system so it could very well be an easier rout. Good luck.

 

The reason it's easier is that the ATS system is already ON the truck.
To change the outlet and down pipe is not super easy but still easier than changing the whole system out.

 

Thanks MEGACAB. I was able to download a install manual from the Banks website but I think the kit they are selling now is different than the older style units I have seen. I am leaning toward buying the unit, for $200 I'm pretty sure can't go wrong. If you could take a look at the manual at Bankspower.com and maybee compare it to the one you have and if they look different then I would prefer to have a copy of your set also. Here is a link to the page where I found the install manual. Banks Power | ’83-93 Ford 6.9 & 7.3L >> Sidewinder® Turbo System Its listed under the download tab below the picture.

Thanks for all the great input everyone this is a great site!

 

Still say you will not see any gain using the Banks turbo, unless you change the entire exhaust to the Banks exhaust.

The ATS on your truck is capable of producing more boost that your engine can handle in stock form, with the ATS tubo outlet and downpipe.
I am seeing over 20 pounds with my ATS turbo, 3" downpipe and straight piped stacks.
You can go as far as 15 pounds on a 7.3 in stock form without having to worry about head gaskets blowing out.



ATS outlet left, Stock Ford right



ATS downpipe left, stock Ford right

Banks also did some work on the air intake side of the turbo, Ford has the stock turbo intake choked almost off with that funny little flat intake thing over the battery.

I hate to see you wasting money for something that does not have all the parts, and not near enough of the original system to make any difference at all.
You would see a better improvement getting a low restriction 3" exhaust, which you are going to need for the Banks unit also.
Anything you can do to get rid of that flattened out downpipe Ford used is also going to help a lot.
Muffler, eliminate it, that thing Ford used is overkill on a turbo engine.

A turbo needs to have free flowing exhaust and a free flowing intake to work like it is supposed to.
If you install a Banks turbo in place of the ATS you have now and make no other changes, it is going to work exactly like the ATS you have now does.
A turbo is a system, all of the parts have to work together to make it a system.

 

I call that intake an "elephant trunk"

 

that is the manual for the "new " sidewinder turbo.
the original sidewinder setup had a huge air box on top of the engine, and there were a lot of different parts used.

 

Yep, thats for the new one all right, Just like my manual. (only my manual was not printed clearly as this one)

If thats the one you are going to get, It worked great on mine. But It is alot of work to chang that stuff over. It sounds like everyone is leaning towards the ATS due to simplicity and will reach the max of 15lbs of boost as well.

If your picking up the one in the book, I did get a great amount of power increase and never touched my fuel setting yet. It will peg out at 10psi and open the waste gate (if equiped on yours) fairly easy once rpm get going and spools quickly as well from a stand still. Probably would do alot better with more fuel cause I don't even blow smoke but it runs much better already. Im thinking of rasing the pressure to 15psi and 2-3 flats up on the fuel setting. Its a fun install though, not much room for the pedistal and downpipe at all.

As for exhaust, My kit came with the banks 3.5" dynaflow (i think) exhaust with a muffler that sounds pritty good. (had to keep it a little quite since I work nights and live at an apartment complex for now so don't want to wake the neighborhood at 3:00AM)

Wow dave, Great picture of the Pipes, never seen them out in the open. They sure have it bottlenecked down, thats for sure. It really does look like someone landed a forklift on it.

After thinking about it, It looks like you would have to purchase quite a bit to make it fit correctly.
Filter housing
turbo to intake housing
filter to turbo housing (holds the cdr in new location)
cdr relocation (you might be able to do that yourself)
oil exit tube from turbo
mounting supports for turbo

You might want to make a list of all your going to need then call banks get a price. Ats in the end will probably be alot cheaper and easier. Heres a picture of banks installed. You will need the pices you see in the picture to make it fit good. (unless you can fabricate some yourself)

I don't know if your going to need to move your tranny dipstick or if yours is already relocated from the factory turbo. You may want to look into this.

 

Dave, since we are back on turbo's, i have a few questions. Everyone talks about boost, I've been reading the ATS manuals and there is no boost adjustment. Is boost increased by increasing fuel?? I also understand an ATS turbo does not have to be removed to service the glow plugs or Injectors?? When you add an ATS turbo, do you have to replace one of the valve covers also?? I want to add a turbo, but keep the boost to 10 psi, and there is a lot I don't know. I may have a chance to buy a 93 ford with a factory turbo on the cheap. I was thinking about transferring the 93 turbo to my 91 and convert the 93 to a NA motor. It also has a ZF5 wich is the same as my truck. I guess the first order of business is to buy the new ATS down pipe or can i have one made locally, using the old one as a pattern??
Thanks in advance.
John

 

The boost is controlled by both the amount of fuel you inject and the wastegate on newer ATS setups.
The stock Ford setup was a wastegated turbo as well.

The waste gate limits top boost produced.
Typically a wastegated turbo will spool faster since it has the wastegate to limit high RPM boost to a safe level.

From the factory, the wastegate is preset to somewhere between 7 and 10 PSI to protect head gaskets.
The adjustment rod is usually staked so it will not move.

You can screw the wastegate rod apart, run a tap in the female end and a die across the rod to remove the staking burs so it may be adjusted.

I recommend a boost gauge installed before you do this.

The Ford system is a reworked ATS system, the parts pictured above are the difference and do limit how fast the turbo will spool and how much it will make for boost.

The stock ATS downpipe is three inch, so you will not even be able to use the stock Ford downpipe as a pattern.
It is a 2.25" ID pipe, that was run over by three fork lifts before it was installed.
Also the ATS downpipe will not fit the stock Ford outlet flange, I don't think there is enough metal there to make the hole as big as the ATS downpipe hole is at a machine shop.

There is very little room for error on the downpipe, the block and firewall are very close where it goes down.

#7 glow plug is a pain with the ATS system, but it can be changed with the turbo in place.
You have to remove the air box and feed horn to the turbo to get at several of the glow plugs, but that is no big deal, one clamp, three air box cover bolts and two bolts hold the air box to the intake.

Injectors are about the same as glow plugs, but #7 injector is much easier than the glow plug.

The turbo tree bolt on the intake where the stock CDR is located.
The CDR relocates to the drivers side rocker cover, so that is why the rocker cover needs to change.

 

Thanks:
I just made a copy of your reply so we can use it when i get the turbo. The 93 truck did not materialize, but I am chasing a 94 turbo right now. I should get one in the next few weeks. I have decided I want an ATS. I also think 7-10 lbs boost will suit me. I am almost happy with the NA, Its just the high altitude driving that i want a little help on.
John

 

With a turbo, it runs about the same on top of a mountain as it does down at sea level.