Where I live we need 4x4's. I live in the country with a long up hill driveway. When we get alot of snow were on our own . I also need a truck as we have a mini farm and I work construction and have to haul things for my job. Thats my point, an econo box won't work for eveyones needs. I also get decent mpg with my rigs because I live in the country, we don't have all that stop and go big city driving. I didn't buy a V-8 powered F-150 or a V-8 powered explorer. We get 20 pluse with our rigs. The energy crisis isn't a real crisis, it's a money scame. We came dependant on foreign scources for our oil and now they call the shots. Now were developing our own energy plan where will will use more of our own, like natural gas, wind, solar, nuclear and oil to name a few, even coal and oil shale. The crisis is we've been lead a round by the nose for to long, it's time to take back control of our own energy needs. It's a free country, you drive what you want to and I will do the same, "thank you"!!

 

spoken like a true 'murrican

So as demand continues to outstrip production and even (horror!) EXISTENCE and even our own reserves do not meet demands (as they do now) - whatcha gonna say then? I got money so I got mine and screw you?

Wind, solar and nuclear aint gonna move your F350 dually extra cab very far. Unless its a REAL strong wind and you left it in neutral.

 

Yes, it's a free country, and we can drive what we want, but only within our means! That has been my point all along in these discussions, that too many people were driving something that put them into deficit spending, either through vehicle payments, or fuel costs. Nobody is going to begrudge a construction worker from driving a full-size truck. The problem is the office folk driving 10MPG trucks to work when they really can't afford them (and still save 10-20% of their income...)

Jason

 

We have a 150 years of oil reserves in this country alone that they know about. When they built the alaskan pipe line, there were supost to be 200 year suply of oil in the alaskan slopes. Thats just oil. T Boone Pickens says we have more natural gas than oil that can power vehicles. There's also bio diesel than can be man made as well as ethanol. There's no shortage of idea's on what we use to power vehicles. There's just a shortage of the willingness to put these plans in effect, or has been, but times are changing. I don't have an F-350 4x4 dually, however if I needed one I would buy it. Do you exspect the world to stop revolving because we get alot of our oil from opec? Our demand out strips our reserves becuase we don't drill or even build new refineries. Brazil runs 90% of there vehicles from ethanol and has since the 74 embargo. They make it from sugar caine. The sky isn't falling chicken little, we just need to get off our butt's and inact a real energy plan. As soon as there's some real alternitive forms of energy, you will see oil prices fall as they will have to fight for your business. Now, there the only game in town. When Bush anouced he was removing the off shore drilling ban, oil prices started falling the next day. I believe in conserving as well, but when you need to work, you still need to buy the equipment to work with. Our dozens, loaders and dump trucks use alot of diesel, so are we to stop working to conserve energy. If so, what are we conserving it for if were not going to use it. They must have some good crack in central PA, but it's time to get real. You shouldn't be a a ford truck forum, you should be on a bicycle forum the way you think. I don't even know why I'm arguing with you, this is stupid and not worth my time. You don't even list what you drive or do you walk and just like to mess with everyone else on a ford truck forum? I'm done with this BS, when your done tripping let me know, then we can have a real discussion. Untill then let them build the 6.2 and 7.0 from people who need pulling power in thier trucks, or if it would make you happy, let them buy mules, this discussion is insaine.

 

should I put in the 'bwahahahaha' now or later?

Sez who and at what recovery cost and at what recovery rate? If the last 120 years of that oil requires an equivalent cost of $200/bbl to extract (which aint far from the truth) will that drive up, or drive down the price at the pump?

Which of course ignores the larger picture: what happens when its gone? DiLithium crystams dont exist. and I notice you are not in the DiLitium Crystal Inventing buisness. Therefore the 'ignore it now, we will figure something out later' stance is exactly equal to: insert head in rectum. Breath deeply.

yeah and natural gas is used in industry, home heating and manufacturing. Im sure if we decide to burn it off in our pickup trucks that should be a big help since everyone remarks how low the natural gas bill is (that was sarcasm)

I love the use of buzzwords without looking into reality. Can we make ethanol and bio to power *a* vehicle? yes

Can we make enough ethanol and bio to power *all* vehicles?

Read this: posted on the web in a number of places, including here. I took the time to run the numbers that the zipperheads aint:

yes there is. Read above. The magnitude of the problem is too large.

No there is a shortage of brain-dead-ness that would have to occur to find ANY solution which allows people to behave as if they have a blank check. Keep in mind, the population of the US will DOUBLE by 2055. Will that Help or Hurt our consumption model?

Our demand outstrips our reserves because our demand outstrips our reserves.

Lets not let facts get in the way of a little rant shall we?

So lets see, Brazil has roughly 15% of its annual fuel as ethanol, 3.43B/gal, meaning their total consumption is appx 22B/gal. The US consumes 146B/gal of GASOLINE not diesel or anything else (re-read above). So not only does Brazil cover their own tab, then cannot cover ours, which is far larger.

No they wont. There is no technology that makes electricity feasible for a true across the board solution for transportation. Airplanes and trucks and boats are somewhat limited by the length of the extension cord they can carry. If fossil fuel powered modes of transportation are going to be continued to be used (and there is zero evidence they wont be, what the molecular transporter having not been invented) then the price will rise as

a) the rest of the world learns to drive. In 10 years for sure, but in perhaps 5 years China and India will represent the worlds largest economies ranked #1, #2. The rest of the world is lobbying to move oil trading from the dollar to chinese currency, as it is the largest amount of currency in global markets.
b) the earths tank runs dry. read: supply and demand laws

No they didnt, prices began falling the minute brokerage firms stopped speculating that the price of oil would hit a target as they were using MBS' (mortgage backed securities) as payment or as part of default credit swaps, as the securities became worthless, so did thier ability to use them to pay for stuff.

Which is why diesel for the first time in history is far more expensive than gas (appx 30%+) demand for fuel oil is ineslastic. Truck, train, boat trips, as well as home heating cannot be cut back on.


did you read that to yourself before you hit enter?

there ya go, surprised it took ya so long. So let me get this straight, you took the effort to discover whatever you could about me, but never ran across any of my posts detailing not only what trucks I own, but have owned, or work on? Brilliant.

No its not. This discussion derives from what exactly the TRUE problem is. It has not as much to do with 'ford truck enthusiasts' as it does with also 'chevy truck enthusiasts' and 'dodge truck enthusiasts' and 'whoever happens to build a truck enthusiasts'.

In a nutshell, Americans and for the most part ONLY Americans have used large vehicles as a substitution for Enzyte. Enzyte woulda been cheaper.

by consuming as if it were a god given right, you and ONLY you (its a royal you, put down the weapon) have created this problem. The problem was going to occur nevertheless. However it is occuring while technology for the most part is still in its infancy. A person can be an enthusiast, without using the enthused about item in a manner with no thought to the future. I quit using my FORD truck as a daily driver a decade ago. Too little. Too late. I have, until recently, been restoring FORD and chevy trucks in my shop, very enthusiastically. However this is not different than the guy who owns, but does not commute in the 10mpg Bugatti Veryon

 

Whatever, I'm done with your BS.

 

BS? Hardly. Quaddriver put together a pretty well-reasoned and fact-based treatise there.

In a sense, I was fortunate my F250 developed a tranny problem, as it forced me to buy something else--the Mazda in my sig, which gets twice the mileage. I have to plan ahead a bit more when it comes to hauling tools and such to the jobsite, but it has sufficed. And, yes, like any other American guy, the low gas prices are tempting me to go pull that tranny and replace the front pump and torque converter so I can drive it again. The reality is, though, when gas was $4+/gallon, I was saving nearly $200/month driving the Mazda. Had the price stayed there, I would have recouped the cost of the Mazda by the end of the year.

But, Quaddriver is right. Our economy is closely tied to inexpensive energy sources, and we use a lot of energy as a whole. Some segments of our energy usage are not easily replaced by others. Could we replace coal? You bet--wind and solar would help, but nuclear could do it in pretty short order. But oil products and natural gas? Not anytime soon--too many dino burners on the road driven by people who wouldn't stand a shot at being able to afford some sort of vehicle with an alternative energy source.

The ironic part is that hybrids make more sense in larger vehicles that are already heavy, so battery packs don't affect them as much. The small hybrids are a joke, IMO, as a small diesel gets much better mileage, especially on the highway.

Ethanol in the U.S. was a dumb direction to go, and I said so from the start. It's fine as an oxygenate additive, but unworkable as a sole fuel.

Jason

 

Ouaddriver has but together a bunch of negitive BS. He's taken the negitive bitter side to the debate. Like who says it would cost us 200.00$ a barrel to retrive our own oil, nobody I've heard descuss it. T Boone Pickens and other have a plan to convert to natural gas to save oil and keep prices down, but Quaddriver is the expert and rocket scientist who knows more than they do. This all started over the 6.2 engine and he's turned it into something ugly and has totally hijacked the thread with his nonsense. I don't know how the world survives with out his insight and words of wisdom. I have nothing against Quaddriver but he's gone to the point of rediculius. The sun will either riase in the morning or it won't, it's not our call. People will either buy super dutyies with the 6.2 or 7.0 or they won't, thats not our call either, he needs to get a grip. He's turned a simple thread into something crazy and off base. Like chicken little running around screaming the sky is falling, what the hell.

 

This is the Ford TRUCK Enthusiast's site. Surely there is a tree-hugger forum somewhere that the abhorrent V-8 engine can be discussed.

Yeah, I agree with you Wendell - crappy way for this thread to diverge.

 

Natural gas isn't much of a solution. It's already expensive enough to heat my house in the winter. Pickens wants the trucking industry to switch to CNG, which would cause a huge spike in demand for NG in general, leading to higher prices for those of us who have it piped into our homes. There is no "magic bullet" solution--I think it will take a diversity of energy sources, but one of the biggest would be to get the %$#!@%#$ nuclear plants up and running! That would make electric cars cheap and feasible, as well as homes could be heated cheaply with electricity. Those of us on NG could add a heating element to our furnaces for not a whole lot, giving us a choice on the cheaper heat source.

Jason

 

Translation: he has posted a lot of facts that I am unable to dispute with any evidence at all

Translation: he posted facts I do not like to hear. In fact, before he mentioned it, I had no idea what the US consumption rate was. Like all scientists he deals with facts and thats just bad.

Translation: I have never once bothered to discover what the extraction cost per oil barrel equivalent is for any country or method or resource. So I will deny it even exists.

Translation: I will ignore that fact that multibillionare T Boone Picket owns more futures contracts than anyone alive, and I will also ignore the current usage of Natural gas, and I will utterly pretend that taking most of the cheapest heating source for US homes will no affect on price.

Translation: after personal attack after attack, and after doing no reading on the subject, I will claim to be the victim

translation: And let this be a warning, if anyone else tries using facts I will do the same to you

Translation: I will not tolerate logic and science and research. I am training to be Bush the 3rd.

Translation: I dont know why I put that in there. "pretty in pink" came on TV and I just laugh at ducky...

Translation: Oh yeah, I forgot, he countered each one of my made up assertions with evidence and thats just not fair. I will now list all of my counter assertions that are based on fact:

 

I cannot possibly be a 'tree-hugger' - I dont own any SUVs.

Besides, I have more V-8s than you do.

 

That's pretty much how it is.

Mike

 

HA HA your so funny, you remind me of the kids in school that wore glasses and had a pocket protecter that knew everything but how to stop getting thier butt kicked everyday. I know what I know, it's just words like yours are just words. I'm not out to prove everything I say nor do I have to, no more than you can. It boils down to what we believe. I believe the glass is half full and you believe it's half empty. All you do is disect my statements and reply to each part with pure unproven BS to try and sound more believable or show your superiorority. I know your type, your try and make your self look better by putting others down. It won't work here, I know what I know. When you get a national reconized plan like T Boone, I'll listen to you. In the mean time spread your doom and gloom somewhere else. However, I'll make you a 100.00$ bet, I bet you we will not run out of oil in our life time or in my childrens either. I also bet within 20 years there will be alternitive energy vehicles on the roads in number. From electric to ethanol and what ever else they come up with as well as gas if the Lord doesn't come back before.

 

Just one thing would be nice.

well heck, that makes it all right then. How is Elvis? and does he still hang out with Zontar?*

I think the correct term is: "asking for proof"

We dont have to run out of oil, we just need to produce less than what is required to make it unavailable to you.

there ya go, Jesus will save you from high gas prices. That is about as good an argument as you have contributed to date.


* = Zontar, thing from Venus