ruff idle and check engine light
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New User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10
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From: utah
ruff idle and check engine light
Ok so i took my 01 sport trac to the dealer for the check engine light and it was running like crap they scanned the truck and came back with p0171 and p1074 system to lean in bank 1 and 2 thay seem to think that it is the intake manifold and a major tune up costing about $700.00 to fix ouch. does this seem right ?
New User
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: pleasentview
Hey, mine is doing the same thing. I replaced the fuel filter then took it to my mechanic to change the intake gasket and he said he wanted to check it his self. He told me that he didn’t think it was the gasket because he checked for vacuum leaks all around the motor and found nothing. He said he cleaned the idle control motor and that the next step would be to change all of the O2 sensors and or maybe the mass air sensor. I do not want to swap a bunch of parts I just want to fix the problem. The weird thing it only does it in the morning when it is cold. If you find something out post it or let me know.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 952
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From: Charlotte, NC
when mine did it, it was the seal around the Idle air controller. It had a leak around it, replaced it and it was running like a champ, now it's just got the codes back (1.5 years later) and i'm leaning towards O2 sensors.
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
I'd check the function of all the 02 sensors as a starting point, a good OBD2 code reader can chart the sensors in action while the motor runs.
Just had the same code with my wife's 96, I watched the sensors in action with my code reader (OBD2 interface and laptop) and B1 S2 (Bank one, Sensor 2) it's the one after the cat was flat line, no voltage switching.
I replaced it and turned off the CEL, she has been driving it for several days now and all is well again. Part was 48 bucks.
Oh and I verified the new sensor was in fact switching once I had it installed, again by watching in action as it ran on my laptop.
Just had the same code with my wife's 96, I watched the sensors in action with my code reader (OBD2 interface and laptop) and B1 S2 (Bank one, Sensor 2) it's the one after the cat was flat line, no voltage switching.
I replaced it and turned off the CEL, she has been driving it for several days now and all is well again. Part was 48 bucks.
Oh and I verified the new sensor was in fact switching once I had it installed, again by watching in action as it ran on my laptop.
Former ******
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,901
Likes: 2
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Look, even if you had an O2 sensor, you are not going to get this code on both banks. To me everything lines up. You have and intake leak. The rough idle is caused by the leak, both codes are caused by the leak. It only happens when cold because the parts expand and seal when heated. The price is maybe just a tad high, because I just had my valve cover gaskets replaced, and that involves removing the intake, so the gaskets get replaced. It only cost me $580 to have both valve cover gaskets replaced, the intake gaskets replaced, several other vacuum leaks fixed, the coolant changed, and the oil changed.
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New User
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: utah
It happen all the time not just when it is cold . I cleaned the mass air flow and that seemed to help but not fix it. so i changed the fuel filter and now when it is in park or just or at a stop some times it will just die . how can you check the intake manafold for leaks
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Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Surrey
I agree about the fault being the intake manifold seals- Mine went the same way, I never read the codes, but it ran like a three legged dog with rabies for a while- till I did the job. Its not hard to do, just be sure to torque the bolts down correctly as you could distort or worse still crack the plastic manifold- refer to haynes manual or Chiltern one ( I have never seen the chiltern one but it must have the procedure in it).
Good luck- let me know if you get stuck.
Good luck- let me know if you get stuck.
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
Easiest way to check for a intake leak, upper or lower, is to run a garden hose on it.
Turn the hose on so water flows slowly, no need to have it run full blast. Have someone watch the tail pipe, start out "low" by flooding the lower intake gasket mating area at both heads with the hose. Then move up, flood the area around the upper plenum gasket. When you find a vacuum leak you will see steam pour out the tail pipe.
If you see steam take the water away and let it clear, now flood with water again, if you work the hose right you will find the exact spot that leaks. When it steams, you got the spot.
Once you have found the exact point where it leaks blow the excess away with compressed air if you can and be sure to run the motor at high idle for a few minutes to clear all the water from the system. Or take it for a quick ride, just don't turn it off until all the water/moister has been cleared. Either way, doesn't take long once the hose is taken away.
Turn the hose on so water flows slowly, no need to have it run full blast. Have someone watch the tail pipe, start out "low" by flooding the lower intake gasket mating area at both heads with the hose. Then move up, flood the area around the upper plenum gasket. When you find a vacuum leak you will see steam pour out the tail pipe.
If you see steam take the water away and let it clear, now flood with water again, if you work the hose right you will find the exact spot that leaks. When it steams, you got the spot.
Once you have found the exact point where it leaks blow the excess away with compressed air if you can and be sure to run the motor at high idle for a few minutes to clear all the water from the system. Or take it for a quick ride, just don't turn it off until all the water/moister has been cleared. Either way, doesn't take long once the hose is taken away.
Former ******
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,901
Likes: 2
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Easiest way to check for a intake leak, upper or lower, is to run a garden hose on it.
Turn the hose on so water flows slowly, no need to have it run full blast. Have someone watch the tail pipe, start out "low" by flooding the lower intake gasket mating area at both heads with the hose. Then move up, flood the area around the upper plenum gasket. When you find a vacuum leak you will see steam pour out the tail pipe.
If you see steam take the water away and let it clear, now flood with water again, if you work the hose right you will find the exact spot that leaks. When it steams, you got the spot.
Once you have found the exact point where it leaks blow the excess away with compressed air if you can and be sure to run the motor at high idle for a few minutes to clear all the water from the system. Or take it for a quick ride, just don't turn it off until all the water/moister has been cleared. Either way, doesn't take long once the hose is taken away.
Turn the hose on so water flows slowly, no need to have it run full blast. Have someone watch the tail pipe, start out "low" by flooding the lower intake gasket mating area at both heads with the hose. Then move up, flood the area around the upper plenum gasket. When you find a vacuum leak you will see steam pour out the tail pipe.
If you see steam take the water away and let it clear, now flood with water again, if you work the hose right you will find the exact spot that leaks. When it steams, you got the spot.
Once you have found the exact point where it leaks blow the excess away with compressed air if you can and be sure to run the motor at high idle for a few minutes to clear all the water from the system. Or take it for a quick ride, just don't turn it off until all the water/moister has been cleared. Either way, doesn't take long once the hose is taken away.
The carb cleaner method is safer and overall more practical. Just check all the vacuum hoses to make sure there is nothing obvious with them, and spray some carb cleaner or starter fluid around the intake manifold. the test is not 100% conclusive, but if you do get an increase in RPM, that is where the leak is. Some people assume that because they don't get an RPM increase that there is no leak.
You really have to look at it from the perspective of things that can cause a lean code on both banks. The intake manifold is one such thing, and the problem is very common. if it were my vehicle, I would just go ahead and replace it. As mentioned, it is not hard. That tune up may not be a bad price if it includes some other work. What all are they planning on replacing?
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
Well water to me is preferable to say a highly flammable or possibly corrosive sprays, and if it does leak its immediately obvious, no guessing but that's up to the user. flammable? corrosive? or just a little clean water.
It works on all motors, not just the 4.0, so if the question of a possible vacuum leak arises, a little water it answers it quick.
Here where I live it down pours now and then, the motor gets wet not a big deal. Worse yet is in the winter time as they use road salt heavily. So once a week during that time I wash all the vehicles top and bottom with high pressure spray at the quarter car wash, no soap just water.
That includes under the hood, been doing it for years, never hurt one yet.
The motor idles as its being strayed, it gets wet everywhere, because I spray it everywhere. If not cleaned regular that salt would corrode everything. A little slow running water from a garden hose is nothing by comparison.
It works on all motors, not just the 4.0, so if the question of a possible vacuum leak arises, a little water it answers it quick.
Here where I live it down pours now and then, the motor gets wet not a big deal. Worse yet is in the winter time as they use road salt heavily. So once a week during that time I wash all the vehicles top and bottom with high pressure spray at the quarter car wash, no soap just water.
That includes under the hood, been doing it for years, never hurt one yet.
The motor idles as its being strayed, it gets wet everywhere, because I spray it everywhere. If not cleaned regular that salt would corrode everything. A little slow running water from a garden hose is nothing by comparison.
Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38
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From: Surrey
The leak may not happen- depends on the temp mostly, the rubber seals are hard and contract when cold, then seal slightly better when warm- YOu will have to trust us on this mate- those codes and the fault you discribe are the seals........anyways not worth wasting time on it- it happens to Explorers and the lean bank codes point to it.
Just not even worth investigating further- I would do the job mate/////least when its done its one less thing to think about!
Good luck and NO WATER!!!!
Just not even worth investigating further- I would do the job mate/////least when its done its one less thing to think about!
Good luck and NO WATER!!!!
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New User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10
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From: utah
Hey guys i have already fix this it was just a bad vac leak it was on the bottom a hose so i could not see the crack in it . the hose was just under the throrottle body and it was only like ten buck to fix . thanks