Replacing rear brake line
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Replacing rear brake line
Hello:
I have a 1995 F-150, 4.9 liter truck, 2WD automatic.
I ran into an unfortunate problem. My rear brake line is leaking fluid. I was told that the front and rear brakes are separated, thereby allowing the front brakes to still work.
The master cylinder seems close to empty, and that's after having tried refilling it. Shouldn't there be a way for the front and rear brakes to be separated from the master cylinder? I see two lines coming off of the cylinder.
When I press my foot to the break, it goes completely to the ground. Should this be the case if the front brakes are supposed to be separate?
The rear line is rusted and seems easy to repair, but I still have the dreadful job of bleeding the lines. Anyway, your input would be appreciated.
Steve
I have a 1995 F-150, 4.9 liter truck, 2WD automatic.
I ran into an unfortunate problem. My rear brake line is leaking fluid. I was told that the front and rear brakes are separated, thereby allowing the front brakes to still work.
The master cylinder seems close to empty, and that's after having tried refilling it. Shouldn't there be a way for the front and rear brakes to be separated from the master cylinder? I see two lines coming off of the cylinder.
When I press my foot to the break, it goes completely to the ground. Should this be the case if the front brakes are supposed to be separate?
The rear line is rusted and seems easy to repair, but I still have the dreadful job of bleeding the lines. Anyway, your input would be appreciated.
Steve
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 11,289
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From: Lakewood, Ohio
first, add fluid.
then find the leak.
move truck to a dry space or put cardboard under or get under and with vehicle off have an assistant press pedal once or so until you find the leak.
if this is all more then you can do then take it to a mechanic.
brakes are nothing to mess with.
you of course have a manual and basic vehicle repair knowledge and tools i hope.
then find the leak.
move truck to a dry space or put cardboard under or get under and with vehicle off have an assistant press pedal once or so until you find the leak.
if this is all more then you can do then take it to a mechanic.
brakes are nothing to mess with.
you of course have a manual and basic vehicle repair knowledge and tools i hope.
Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice
Hello:
I went outside and tested the brakes. It does seem that the front do work, but only when the pedal is totally depressed. I agree that brakes are nothing to take lightly.
I may take it to a mechanic, but I have extensive mechanical knowledge, and I've replaced brakes before.
Boy, when a vehicle is 13 years old, and all the parts are the originals, it's no wonder that they all decide to break at once. The line is the one near the very end, It's before it attaches to the "T" where it goes into the rear brake lines. It is super rusted, and I see exactly where the leak is coming from.
Take it easy.
Steve
I went outside and tested the brakes. It does seem that the front do work, but only when the pedal is totally depressed. I agree that brakes are nothing to take lightly.
I may take it to a mechanic, but I have extensive mechanical knowledge, and I've replaced brakes before.
Boy, when a vehicle is 13 years old, and all the parts are the originals, it's no wonder that they all decide to break at once. The line is the one near the very end, It's before it attaches to the "T" where it goes into the rear brake lines. It is super rusted, and I see exactly where the leak is coming from.
Take it easy.
Steve
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
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From: Sand Lake, MI
Excessive pedal travel is normal with one of the two systems leaking fluid.
Keep the master cylinder from draining dry while you replace the rusty line, do all of them, if one is rusted the others won't be far behind it.
If the master cylinder runs dry you will have to bleed it first, then the lines to each wheel.
Brake lines are fairly easy to replace but if you're unsure of what you are doing you should have it repaired by someone that does know.
Rust is another problem, without proper tools, a torch and the know how to use it, you will replace many more parts otherwise still "good".
The use of only simple hand tools will likely have you breaking one part after another all the way to the master cylinder adding much more to the cost. The use of torch will insure you only replace "cheap" lines. "Heat" also insures the bleeders will come loose, if you break em or otherwise round them off you replace calipers and or wheel cylinders so the brakes can be bleed right. So called "Line bleeding" leaves a spongy pedal regardless of how many times you do it.
Keep the master cylinder from draining dry while you replace the rusty line, do all of them, if one is rusted the others won't be far behind it.
If the master cylinder runs dry you will have to bleed it first, then the lines to each wheel.
Brake lines are fairly easy to replace but if you're unsure of what you are doing you should have it repaired by someone that does know.
Rust is another problem, without proper tools, a torch and the know how to use it, you will replace many more parts otherwise still "good".
The use of only simple hand tools will likely have you breaking one part after another all the way to the master cylinder adding much more to the cost. The use of torch will insure you only replace "cheap" lines. "Heat" also insures the bleeders will come loose, if you break em or otherwise round them off you replace calipers and or wheel cylinders so the brakes can be bleed right. So called "Line bleeding" leaves a spongy pedal regardless of how many times you do it.
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Thanks Dan1
Dan:
Thanks for the advice. I do think the lines will be easy to repair. The line that's rusted out is the one going to the rear before it Ts off to the two rear brakes.
Anyway, this truck is 13 years old, and it's one rusty part after another breaking. I have a stuff called P Blaster (made in Cleveland) that is super for soaking rusty parts in. I will spray the bleed ports prior to doing anything. There's nothing stopping me from succeeding.
I am convinced I can fix almost anything. The past few weeks have been a nightmare, and I have persevered through a defective original alternator that had to be torched in order to free up from the bolt, along with an original water pump that had to be sawed in half in order to get to the fan bolt. Prior to that, the past couple months have seen me also replace the rear U joints and the EPA-mandated air pump.
I think after all is said and done, I may become a part-time mechanic. With this crappy recession upon us, the only people that'll survive are trades people and farmers. I teach at a technical school.
Take care.
Steve
Thanks for the advice. I do think the lines will be easy to repair. The line that's rusted out is the one going to the rear before it Ts off to the two rear brakes.
Anyway, this truck is 13 years old, and it's one rusty part after another breaking. I have a stuff called P Blaster (made in Cleveland) that is super for soaking rusty parts in. I will spray the bleed ports prior to doing anything. There's nothing stopping me from succeeding.
I am convinced I can fix almost anything. The past few weeks have been a nightmare, and I have persevered through a defective original alternator that had to be torched in order to free up from the bolt, along with an original water pump that had to be sawed in half in order to get to the fan bolt. Prior to that, the past couple months have seen me also replace the rear U joints and the EPA-mandated air pump.
I think after all is said and done, I may become a part-time mechanic. With this crappy recession upon us, the only people that'll survive are trades people and farmers. I teach at a technical school.
Take care.
Steve
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
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From: Sand Lake, MI
Well if you survived all that, won the battle, I think you should be able to handle a brake line.
Just don't put a lot of faith in stuff like P Blaster, WD-40, liquid wrench or any stuff like that. If it can't get in, and for the most part none of them can, it won't help at all. If the rust/corrosion is heavy enough to freeze the parts from turning it won't allow the stuff in far enough to do any good, you will break the part thinking it has. Sure it may help, just don't put to much faith in it.
I do once I get a part to move first, I squirt it with some tranny fluid in a oil can (straight tranny fluid, nothing added) and work the part back and forth a few times, then remove it. Adding more fluid if needed, straight tranny fluid works better then all that other fancy stuff, and yea I've tried it all. I use fluid that was drained, "free" that way and have all I can use. Heck get some 16 quarts back from one E4OD change! lol
I strain it through a rag just to be sure it doesn't clog my oil can pump all the time, my drain pan is never the cleanest thing around.
Just don't put a lot of faith in stuff like P Blaster, WD-40, liquid wrench or any stuff like that. If it can't get in, and for the most part none of them can, it won't help at all. If the rust/corrosion is heavy enough to freeze the parts from turning it won't allow the stuff in far enough to do any good, you will break the part thinking it has. Sure it may help, just don't put to much faith in it.
I do once I get a part to move first, I squirt it with some tranny fluid in a oil can (straight tranny fluid, nothing added) and work the part back and forth a few times, then remove it. Adding more fluid if needed, straight tranny fluid works better then all that other fancy stuff, and yea I've tried it all. I use fluid that was drained, "free" that way and have all I can use. Heck get some 16 quarts back from one E4OD change! lol
I strain it through a rag just to be sure it doesn't clog my oil can pump all the time, my drain pan is never the cleanest thing around.
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Post Fiend
Joined: May 2004
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From: Lakewood, Ohio
i could give you some tips on removing and replacing the brake lines but it seems you might take my advice wrong.
if you run into trouble ask and i will see if i can help.
if you run into trouble ask and i will see if i can help.
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I will let you know soon.
Thanks men for your help.
I am busy this week, but Friday, I will repost on here regarding this thread. I'll start by removing the line, but I'll keep you guys up-to-date so you can follow me through the process.
Assuming I do get the lines off quickly, I need to know if bleeding the rear brakes is all that's required. I don't think I need to bleed the front ones if there's still fluid in the master cylinder.
Also, when bleeding brakes, I was told by a friend that you have to have someone pump the brake while you bleed it. Is this true? Can it be done with one person using a broom stick to hold the pedal down? LOL.
Steve
I am busy this week, but Friday, I will repost on here regarding this thread. I'll start by removing the line, but I'll keep you guys up-to-date so you can follow me through the process.
Assuming I do get the lines off quickly, I need to know if bleeding the rear brakes is all that's required. I don't think I need to bleed the front ones if there's still fluid in the master cylinder.
Also, when bleeding brakes, I was told by a friend that you have to have someone pump the brake while you bleed it. Is this true? Can it be done with one person using a broom stick to hold the pedal down? LOL.
Steve
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
No you wont have to bleed the front as long as you keep the master full of fluid, keep adding to it so it never runs out as it leaks down while you work on the rear line.
Bleeding, have a helper pump the brake pedal several times to force the air down to the wheels. (Start at the farthest wheel from the master cylinder) Have them hold the pedal down, you loosen the bleeder, they push the pedal the rest of the way down (it may not "pump up" the first few times) now tighten the bleeder. Have them pump again, repeat until you get a solid stream of fluid from each bleeder. Make sure your helper doesn't allow the pedal up again until you have tightened the bleeder.
As you work and after you get rid of a bunch of air, they will feel the pedal "pump up", (Travel distance decrease with each pump) when you open the bleeder the pedal will go to the floor, make sure they push it down all the way. Once you have the brakes properly bleed the pedal will no longer pump up, you will have a solid pedal. If after the truck sits a while you find it is spongy and pumps up again, bleed it again.
Often during this bleeding process, is when another one of the rusty lines will blowout.
You will also find a bleeder on the RABS valve, inside frame rail under drivers feet.
Bleeding, have a helper pump the brake pedal several times to force the air down to the wheels. (Start at the farthest wheel from the master cylinder) Have them hold the pedal down, you loosen the bleeder, they push the pedal the rest of the way down (it may not "pump up" the first few times) now tighten the bleeder. Have them pump again, repeat until you get a solid stream of fluid from each bleeder. Make sure your helper doesn't allow the pedal up again until you have tightened the bleeder.
As you work and after you get rid of a bunch of air, they will feel the pedal "pump up", (Travel distance decrease with each pump) when you open the bleeder the pedal will go to the floor, make sure they push it down all the way. Once you have the brakes properly bleed the pedal will no longer pump up, you will have a solid pedal. If after the truck sits a while you find it is spongy and pumps up again, bleed it again.
Often during this bleeding process, is when another one of the rusty lines will blowout.
You will also find a bleeder on the RABS valve, inside frame rail under drivers feet.
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Good information
Hello Dan1:
Thanks for that advice. I am assuming that since my lines in the back are not leaking now anymore -- and since I have still a third or so of fluid in the master cylinder -- that the front brakes are fine and don't need to be bled.
When I start with the furthest rear wheel, I am assuming that the other rear wheel needs to have the bleeder valve shut. Then once I have bled the furthest line, then I can finish the last one in the same manner. I was assuming that once you open one bleeder valve up, then it contaminates both wheel lines with air. But I guess that is not the case if you do them one at a time.
Sounds good so far. I have a neighbor that knows cars, and that's no problem.
You mentioned another part that has a bleeder on the truck under the driver's side? What does that stand for? Is it necessary to pay any attention to that one this time around?
Steve
Thanks for that advice. I am assuming that since my lines in the back are not leaking now anymore -- and since I have still a third or so of fluid in the master cylinder -- that the front brakes are fine and don't need to be bled.
When I start with the furthest rear wheel, I am assuming that the other rear wheel needs to have the bleeder valve shut. Then once I have bled the furthest line, then I can finish the last one in the same manner. I was assuming that once you open one bleeder valve up, then it contaminates both wheel lines with air. But I guess that is not the case if you do them one at a time.
Sounds good so far. I have a neighbor that knows cars, and that's no problem.
You mentioned another part that has a bleeder on the truck under the driver's side? What does that stand for? Is it necessary to pay any attention to that one this time around?
Steve
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The part mentioned by Danr1 is the Rear Anti-lock Brake System valve block. It is on the inside of the left side frame rail and from your description, it sounds like you are running the new pipe from it to the rear "T". It has a normal bleed screw and you may need to bleed it after the rear brakes.
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Thanks for the response
Hello:
Thanks for that information. I will check that out. I think that after that block, there's a joiner fitting that is connected to the rear line. I will remove that fitting since the leak doesn't exist until way down the line near the wheel. No sense in doing more work than necessary.
Steve
Thanks for that information. I will check that out. I think that after that block, there's a joiner fitting that is connected to the rear line. I will remove that fitting since the leak doesn't exist until way down the line near the wheel. No sense in doing more work than necessary.
Steve
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