It was my understanding that the general consenses around here is that the tuners do little for the modular engines as far as more power is concerned. Maybe 10-20HP at the high end, but how noticeable will that be in an SD?

Now they do improve response time on the drive by wire system of the 3V engines, so there might be some gains there.

In my experience with the Superchips 1715 in my 2V 5.4 F150, the 93 program didn't offer any seat of the pants improvement in engine performance. It did make my 4R70W crap-o-matic shift better and firmer. I think that's were most the "performance" comes from. The Torqshift IMO is awesome from the factory, but I've never had a tuned on to compare.

So if it were me, I'd look for an E-bay tuner for cheap. That's how I got mine and it was worth the 100-150 I paid. Definitely not what they cost new, especially with the Torqshift.

I'd forget about all the other bolt on crap.

Mike

 

Ok, this thread has quickly moved away from the original question "What is the difference" to "What is recommended." My concern is that certain recommendations may not even be available for my truck. For example, K & N offers two different kits for the 2005 5.4L 3V engine. For the 2005 F150, it's part# 57-2556 and for the 2005 F250 it's part# 63-2570. K & N does not offer a kit for the 2005 F350. Now, there must be a difference in these engines. Otherwise, part# 63-2570 should fit both the F250 and F350. Note the specification differences below:


<TABLE id=table_spec style="HEIGHT: 39px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=400 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bg************>57-2556 Product Specifications</TD></TR><TR><TD bg***************>Product Style: 57 Series FIPK
Estimated Horsepower Gain: 15.47 HP @ 3829 RPM
Type: Gen II
Replacement Filter: RF-1020
CARB EO Number: D-269-34
CARB Exempt: Yes
Weight: 14 lb (6.4 kg)
Product Box Length: 23 in (584 mm)
Product Box Width: 14.25 in (362 mm)
Product Box Height: 12.13 in (308 mm)




<TABLE id=table_spec style="HEIGHT: 39px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=400 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bg************>63-2570 Product Specifications</TD></TR><TR><TD bg***************>Product Style: 63 Series Aircharger Kits
Estimated Horsepower Gain: 21.48 HP @ 4387 RPM
Replacement Filter: RC-5046
CARB Exempt: No
Oversize Shipping: OS1
Weight: 14.4 lb (6.5 kg)
Product Box Length: 24.13 in (613 mm)
Product Box Width: 17.38 in (441 mm)
Product Box Height: 15.5 in (394 mm)



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I don't know what "CARB Exempt" means... can anyone explain?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

Although you may want to believe that the engines are different-they are not. The OEM PCM programming is different,and the chassis that the engine is housed in is different. That's why the K&N applications are finding different power "gains" for each vehicle and also have a different part number. Don't trust those power "gains" either-99% of the time,those gains are simply due to the "cold air kit" skewing the MAF's transfer function lean. If you were to make dyno pulls with the identical same air/fuel trace(adjusted for the CAI altering the transfer function)-you'll see that there's very little to be gained from the "cold air kit" other than noise.
The OEM air inlet tubing on every vehicle is flowed on a bench as a complete assembly and the MAF's transfer function is built in this manner at the engineering facility for the factory. When you alter ANYTHING in the air path from what is present in OEM configuration,you change the manner in which the air is measured,and this changes the fuel metering. Maybe you'll skew the fuel lean,maybe rich-who knows? Nobody does,and this is bad. Load is also calculated by the MAF's airflow measurement,and when the MAF's measurement is incorrect-load calculation is incorrect. When load claculation is incorrect-spark calculation is incorrect. When load calculation is incorrect-trans shifts are timed incorrectly. These are the things the salespeople with the aftermarket companies somehow "forget" to tell you when you're listening to their salespitch.
Can a "cold air induction" be used safely and gain power? Sure-there's room for improvement in airflow-but it's not alot. And the only way to do it right and safely would be to buy the "cold air induction" kit and also pay a shop to retune the PCM on a dyno under load using a wideband o2 sensor to get the MAF's transfer function correct again so it's measuring air properly.
JL

 

Keep in mind I have the 5.4L 2 valve, but IMO the most worthwhile thing to spend money on is a gibson exhaust. It doesn't sound 'the best' but I noticed a substansial power increase with the sport exhaust that exits right in front of the rear wheel.

I 'substituted' my cat for a piece of straight pipe, that worked pretty good too.

I've never seen a pair of long tubes for our motors, but that doesn't mean they're not out there. If you are looking for a big jump in ponies I'd get an off-road y-pipe. The Y seems to be one of the more restrictive points in the the exhaust, but if you already suffer from lack of low-end you may wanna keep it.

I put the K&N deal on my truck, drove with it for a week and noticed no performance difference AT ALL so I took it back claiming 'I didn't know I actually had a diesel' the people at advance thought I was retarded but i got my hundred some bucks back.

Autolite Iridium plugs work good, be careful while gapping them. Those will give you a little more go power.

If you do crave something more, get a good tune once you've made the mods you want. Just be careful, I have bunches of friends that have paid for 'performace tunes' and ended up with trucks that were running weaker than stock and belching carbon. Ex. 2001 Chevy Silverado Z71 stepside short cab, 5.3L Longtube headers, offroad y pipe, cat delete, $2100 corsa exhaust, fancy CAI... after his performance tune he was putting 185HP on the ground after new plugs and all that happy stuff. Before hand he was laying down a solid 230horse...

I guess all i'm trying to say is DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND DONT get ripped off!

 

The bottom line is that all the relatively affordable aftermarket "add-ons" will hardly do anything for you on that engine. I'm not going to argue the "few horsepower here, few there" that you can get, but it really adds up to virtually no noticeable difference. I've had the K&N FIPK Gen II kits on both the 5.4 2V and 3V versions. Other than having an air cleaner that I can clean myself, it doesn't do a darn thing for your performance. I've also had $1,000+ Gibson exhaust systems on both (including long-tube headers on the 2V), and except for the sound, it was pretty much worthless for added performance. I've had a series of tuners for both, and tunes for the low-octane fuel were almost impossible to notice, the tunes for higher octane fuel were barely noticeable. I did have a Powerdyne supercharger on the 2V version, and while it had a marked improvement in performance, it was several thousand dollars.

It sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into buying something, like a K&N FIPK, so it you really want it, go get it. But no matter what you throw at that 5.4L 3V engine, you just are not going to see a noticeable improvement in performance. And you will spend hundreds, if not thousands, doing it.

Believe me, I've tried it all. I've had 5.4L 2V and 3V engines and the V10 in gassers, and the 7.3 and 6.0 in Powerstrokes. I've bought all the power adders. I've spent the thousands of $$.

TX

 

Your best upgrade for more accelerattion will be swapping to 4.30 gearing in your differentials. It does work, 100% of the time, plus it has little impact on the fuel mileage. (Triton engines aren't real sensitive that way).

 

That's it right there.^^^^^^^^

You can throw all the bolt ons and tuners and whatever at the 5.4, and you're going to get minimal results. With a full intake, exhaust and tuner, you might get 20HP at a specific point in the powerband. IMO save the money for gas.

About the only thing that I would recommend is the tuner to reduce the drive by wire lag.

But if you absolutely have to buy something, get stuff that it shiney and/or flashy, because that's about the only benefit you're going to get.

You've got to think that with the new 09 5.4 only getting a 20 HP/25ft/lb bump with all the resources at Ford's disposal (granted on 87), that you're not going to do much to an 05 5.4 without dropping a ton of cash.

Now with dropping a ton of cash, supercharge it and forget it.

Mike

 

Fixed that for you...
JL

 

You can say that but when several other brands such as Dodge and Toyota can make much more power with similar sized engines, it's clear that the 5.4 is pretty tapped out in its current design state.

Even the DOHC 4 valve 5.4 could only muster 300HP.

Mike

 

When your company's CAFE is based on the total number of units sold each year,you can't afford to risk making more power with the slight tradeoff in higher emissions and slightly less economy. When Dodge and Toyota start selling an equivalent number of vehicles and get to feel the wrath of the EPA and their fines for being below CAFE standards-things will change. There is a substantial amount of power still untapped in the modulars that Emissions tuning and customer comfort tuning take away from the final product sold at the dealerships.
JL

 

Ok, is any of that changeable with bolt ons and tuners to a degree that it will matter in a Superduty?

Also I don't buy that Ford can't make more power because of the government meanies.

Mike

 

What long tube headers did you have on your 2V?

 

Present CAFE standard do not include 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. That's why they don't list the fuel mileage on the window sticker.....they don't have to.

 

I disagree with this too. It's been proven with dyno results that a tune only(all else stock) will yield a peak to peak difference of 30 RWHP and 40 ft-lbs TQ on a 3V 6.8L. There are gains of 40hp and 60 ft-lbs at different points in the RPM range. Using you're "Toyota and Dodge logic" above...By simply figuring a displacement difference between the 5.4L and the 6.8L-that would be 24 RWHP and 32 ft-lbs TQ with a 3V 5.4L. The nice thing about the 3V 5.4L is the VVT that can be manipulated for power and economy based on how you drive it. The 6.8L doesn't have this,and it gains susbstantial amounts with a simple tune for good fuel and an optimized air/fuel ratio.
There's more to it than raw displacement and power output.
JL

 

That is correct. Ford simply chooses to rate the superduty engines at the same power level and use the same tuning methods for simplicity's sake.
JL