Recently my starter has decided to quit. No crank at all. Occasionally it will crank and crank well. If it dies and needs recrank--another roll of the dice.

After cleaning the connector from the starter wire to the starter it appears to be in about the same shape as it was. Also replaced the battery.

Some symptoms: Inside lights are dimmer and are slow to illuminate if starter won't start. As said before, replaced/recharged battery, same symptoms. Also checked negative battery lead (ground) and appears to be fine.

To rule out the key ignition I also tried starting it by jumping the starter relay terminals. I get a across terminals spark but still no crank if there was no crank from inside.

My initial guess is starter relay. The ribbed cable covering from the relay to the starter is broken/missing in places, but I don't see why that would affect interior lighting/power.

I should also note that while warming up it will sometimes run real rough. While this is happening the inside lights will flicker and go off and on with the engine dying and trying to come back to life again. But they work when the engine is off. This makes no sense to me since the truck is carbureted with a coil & dist...and it has a new battery that I precharged to make sure it was good.

Any suggestions are appreciated.


p.s.

This started after the front was on the stands for about 2-3 weeks for a front rotor replacement. Only thing that happened under the hood was a removal of master cylinder for painting...there may have been some brake fluid that leaked on a wire bundle--would DOT3 dissolve the wire insulation?

 

Is your alternator ok, got around 14 volts at a fast idle?

 

All of your accessory power comes from the positive terminal on the starter relay. That terminal is connected directly to the positive battery terminal. It sounds like you have a bad ground cable or positive cable. Sometines these cables will corrode inside of the connector lug and you can not even see it. Another suggestion is, if your ground cable goes all the way to the starter and grounds on one of the starter mounting bolts, change that. I did and had much better cranking speed and everything seemed to work better. I ran an 18" length of cable from the ground terminal of the battery to the alternator bracket. I also replaced the positive cable going to the starter solenoid with #2 cable. The original factory cables are marginal in size and are not much bigger than a set of cheap k-mart jumper cables.

 

The starter relay (based on some archive browsing, it may be the solenoid) hooks directly to the positive terminal. The voltage at the terminal and the battery are pretty close. there is a big terminal on the other side of the solenoid that runs to the starter. It has about .5V less, tops. Of the two smaller terminals, one has a red cap and is at 6V. The other isn't being used.

I think I fried the fuses in my DMM's amp meter, so they always report 0 no matter what.

I did switch the neg terminal out. I was didn't want to touch the pos because it looks like someone spliced some wires into it. But if it's really in need of replacing, I can do it.

As for the alternator, I've had some suspicions about it. I can test it when I get it to start, but I have to get it to start first.

 

I had basically the same problem you are describing on my 87 F150 right after I bought it (used) when I still had that truck. The solenoid was bolted to the firewall right near the battery. I replaced it for about $6 at the time (1995?) probably a couple of bucks more now, anyway it took me all of 20 minutes to do although I blew 2 more of them before realizing the guy who owned it before me had hooked his replacement part up wrong and when I put it back together the way he had done it they didn't last very long. I doubt you have that same problem but I couldn't figure out at the time why they were only lasting a week or two.
Bottom line, for $8-$10 and 20 minutes worth of work, you'll know if that is the problem or not.

 

Oh yeah, just remembered. After mine did what yours is doing for a while I got in to start it one day and it turned over but when I released the key the starter would not disengage, I had to quick pop the hood and unhook the battery to get it to quit. The guys at the parts store said something in the solenoid sticking what was also what caused the lights to dim in the truck and come back slowly similar to large draw on the battery from starting taking away available power from the lighting and the slow return was due to the part slowly coming unstuck. Don't quite remember the whole explanation and I'm not an expert on all the internal workings of a solenoid but replacing the part fixed the problem.

 

Just last week a friend of mine asked me to look at his Crown Vic, it had close to the same symptoms as yours. The battery read 12 volts but only once in a while the starter solenoid would click. The inside lights were dim. But, I put a meter on the battery and when he opened the door and the inside lights came on, the voltage at the battery dropped to 6 volts! The battery was replaced and that was the problem.

 

In addition to the new battery and new neg post, I replaced the pos post (looked older than the solenoid). Still no luck. I'm going to try to get a solenoid next, though the one it has looks new. Reasons:

-The "S" post is leaking a bit (shows 22 millivolts when shut down)
-I have had the starter sticking problem, but I was thinking it was the keylock sticking and needing lube.
- One of the two solenoid mounting bolts came loose. It also looks like the paint was sanded around the solenoid bolts to allow it to ground at the mounting bolts. I had some leftover copper washers from changing the front calipers and stuck one of those between the body and solenoid to help maintain a connection. No luck

I'll let you know how it goes w/ new solenoid...may wait till tomorrow

 

New Borg-Warner Starter solenoid. No change...

Any more thoughts?

 

Try reading your battery voltage with a load on the battery, like, headlights or whatever. It should not drop but very little if your battery is good. I have seen new batterys that were junk.

 

It's not the battery. I went straight to the cab light to measure voltage when dim. It at about 7 V while the battery remains at ~12.5 V. If I turn on the parking light the voltage at the cab light drops to 3V.

Also, turning the ignition to "on" drop the voltage, as all the systems that come on suck power. Still no voltage drop at the battery. So whatever is keeping the truck from starting is basically stripping the signal voltage on the "S" post of the solenoid and prevents the truck from firing up. Don't know why shorting the S post to pos didn't hit the starter, unless there is a major ground on that line somewhere.

I'll follow the primary cab positive feeds down and see if I can find a loose connection. Any other suggestions?

 

It sounds like you have a bad connection somewhere. It has to be between your battery and ground or your battery positive and your starter solenoid.

 

I think it's in the large-gauge yellow wire that feeds the cab. There is a connector/plug just after the battery which tests at 12.5V. The large-gauge yellow wire then goes into the cab and across to the drivers side. I get 7V at the yellow wire on the steering column harness. I would like to test in the middle but I need to know if there is a wire disconnection/plug before I disassemble most of the dash looking for something that may not be there. If it is there, where is it?

Thanks

p.s. The voltage drop between the two plug ends near the battery is 11.5V. since I am getting a voltage, I'm assuming that means there is a ground somewhere along that line. Is this a correct assumption?.

 

Send me your e-mail address. I will take a digital photo of my prints and e-mail them to you. Yours is a 92 correct?
mantta(No Email Addresses In Posts!)

 

I use my 1995 F150 for towing. We towed a 7000 lb 5th wheel trailer all across America with it. With the tranny in 3rd gear and the engine at 4000 rpm, it would go right up the hills, even with a 355 rear end. But the headers were cherry red hot. It has gone 95,000 miles under this abuse with no engine or tranny failures. Most of the truck is stock.

The starter would do this weird thing where it would work sometimes and then not other times. At a truck stop in Oklahoma, it died and I crawled underneath to check it out.

There are two control wires going to the starter solenoid, and they are protected with black plastic wire loom. THe wire loom was melted as was the insulation on the wires, and the wires themselves were green with oxidation. A little electrical tape, some emory cloth and dielectric grease, and I was on my way.

I eventually replaced the starter, which was pretty well scorched, with a "mean green" reduction gear starter - all stainless, and also replaced the soilenoid. It has never given any trouble since. The original starter was baked like a Christmas Ham.

The location of starters on the side of the block surrounded by (and baked by) the exhaust manifold is a really bad design. The Northstar engines in the Cadilliacs acutally put the starter INSIDE the engine (under the intake manifold, in the "V") and apparently they last forever in this nice temperature-controlled environment.

If you are having F150 starter troubles (with a V-8) check the condition of the starter first, before messing with solenoids, etc., as it may be you have a "baked" starter and fried wires, especially if you have been running the engine at maximum load for hours at a time.