I have an '85 Lincoln Continental that I bought to build a sleeper out of (don't ask, I'm just into wild, off-the-wall stuff). I pulled the stock 302 and AOD, sent the tranny off to a local shop and the block to a machine shop, and started ordering from Summit. Here's what I bought:

-Edelbrock Performer RPM Power Package kit (heads, cam, timing set, lifters, intake manifold)
-Scorpion 1.6 Race Series roller rockers
-Manley 5/16" x 6.875"pushrods
-Edelbrock Thunder Series AVS 650cfm electric choke carb
-Speed-Pro forged flat top piston & ring kit (2.70cc)
-ARP rod bolts
-Edelbrock Performer RPM single stage nitrous kit
-BBK shorty headers
-MSD Pro-Billet RTR distributor (vacuum advance)
-MSD wires & Blaster 2 coil
-MSD 6AL ignition box
-Melling high volume oil pump
-Carter electric fuel pump
-4 core universal aluminum radiator
-All new gaskets and bearings

Here are the specs on the cam:

ENGINE: FORD 289-302 V8
RPM RANGE: 1500-6500

<!--- Cam specs start here ---><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=390 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#d9f2fc><TD class=tah2>Duration at 0.006" Lift:</TD><TD class=tah2>Intake: 290°</TD><TD class=tah2>Exhaust: 300° </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#f2f2f2><TD class=tah2>Duration at 0.050" Lift:</TD><TD class=tah2>Intake: 224°</TD><TD class=tah2>Exhaust: 234° </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#d9f2fc><TD class=tah2>Lift at Cam:</TD><TD class=tah2>Intake: 0.310"</TD><TD class=tah2>Exhaust: 0.325" </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#f2f2f2><TD class=tah2>Lift at Valve:</TD><TD class=tah2>Intake: 0.496"</TD><TD class=tah2>Exhaust: 0.520"</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#d9f2fc><TD class=tah2>Timing at 0.050" lift:</TD><TD class=tah2>Open</TD><TD class=tah2>Close</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#f2f2f2><TD class=tah2>Intake:</TD><TD class=tah2>5° BTDC</TD><TD class=tah2>39° ABDC</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#d9f2fc><TD class=tah2>Exhaust:</TD><TD class=tah2>54° BBDC</TD><TD class=tah2>0° ATDC</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#f2f2f2><TD class=tah2>Centerlines:</TD><TD class=tah2>Lobe Separation - 112°</TD><TD class=tah2>Intake Centerline - 107°</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The tranny was rebuilt to Mustang GT specs, a shift kit and 2800 stall converter were installed. The block was cleaned up, bored .030 over, and the stock crank was balanced. All bearings were replaced.

The machine shop installed the cam, timing set, rods, pistons, and bearings, but a local speed shop installed and set up the heads, pushrods, lifters, oil pump, and intake manifold.

I dropped the motor and trans in, hooked everything up, set up Lokar kickdown & throttle cables, and fired her up. The first test drive was on year old 87 octane, so I don't have to tell you guys how it ran. We siphoned out this varnish and replaced it with fresh 93. This made an improvement, but it was obvious that something still wasn't right. The car had no ***** whatsoever off the bottom and pulled about as hard as the stock 302 from 2k up. From there, the car went to an exhaust shop where a 2.5" exhaust with an X pipe and Dynaflow mufflers were installed. There was no difference in performance with or without exhaust. We played with the timing, but nothing improved performance over the settings recommended by Edelbrock. We changed the springs in the distributor, trying each set included with the dist, but no drastic improvements were made. We moved from there to the carb, and tried running a 650cfm Holley (marginally better) and a 750cfm Demon (way too much fuel, loaded up). From there we ran a compression check and all cylinders made excellent pressure.

We figured that the stock gearing was holding it back, so 3.73 gears were installed along with a Detroit TrueTrac LSD (7.5"). This made the most significant difference yet, but the car still significantly lacks ***** off the bottom.

As for the nitrous kit, I haven't even considered installing it considering the current performance of the engine. I want to get this thing running right before I blow it up

Here are the symptoms:

-Absolutely no ***** from idle to around 2.5k
-Won't powerbrake, definitely not spinning up to 2800 (or anywhere close) on the brake
-Pulls decent from 2.5k up, shifts late and hard
-Fuel pressure is 4-6psi (regardless of RPM) when the car is first started, but drops to 1-2psi after car is driven for any length of time. Pump has been replaced, but nothing has changed. If I remove the fuel line at the carb when the engine is hot, it pumps fuel like a bat out of hell, but if I reconnect it, it won't even fill the filter (vapor lock?).
-If you punch it off idle, it stumbles for around a second before clearing its throat

Any suggestions as to what may be wrong/where I went wrong? I'm stumped by the fuel pressure problem, and I'm starting to wonder whether or not the machinist who installed the cam screwed up its timing. This is my first motor build, so I'm learning as I go and I want as much advice as I can get from knowledgable guys.

Everyone who has looked at this thing and driven it agrees that something's not right, but no one has been able to figure it out.

Thanks in advance,
David

 

What kind of vacuum are you drawing at idle?

What are the timing specs Edelbrock recommends?

AOD's are notorious for poor performance when the TV cable is incorrectly adjusted.

 

1) As for the vacuum, I'm not sure. I haven't checked.

2) With regard to timing, this is directly from Edelbrock:
"A good starting figure would be between 10 degrees to 14
degrees initial timing at idle with vacuum advance disconnected.
Total advance should not exceed 32 degrees to 34 degrees with
initial and centrifugal weights combined and should be at full
advance at 3000-3500 rpm."

It's been almost a year since I timed this thing, so I'm not positive where we've got it. If I remember correctly, it's set at 13deg idle and around 30 advanced.

3) This was the first TV cable I've ever set up, so I did it according to the directions and have adjusted it a few times. No dramatic improvements were made, but this is definitely something I need to revisit next time I get a chance to work on the car (it's 250 miles away in my dad's garage right now). From my inexperienced standpoint, it does feel like there is a problem with the tranny. The guy who built the tranny has driven the car and he points the finger elsewhere, but that's kind of to be expected.

Question: would the TV cable have any affect on the performance of the converter?

Another question: What's the likelyhood that I wiped the cam out during break-in? I wasn't exactly easy on this thing, as I come from a motorcycle background where you run the **** out of a fresh motor and heat cycle it a few times for break-in. A friend of mine who has been in the industry forever mentioned this as a possibility.

 

Vacuum readings can be pretty helpful. I use a vacuum gauge to dial in the idle mixture.

That's 13 degrees initial plus 25 degrees mechanical for 38 degrees total? I'd try 13-14 degrees initial, 18 degrees mechanical for 32-33 degrees total with one heavy silver and one blue spring.

 

Baron- Thanks, I will take note of those settings and try them the next time I get to work on the car. Sorry about my lack of memory, it's been about a year since I first got this thing running and set everything up. Now that I think about it, there's no way we put 25 degrees of mechanical advance into it, as 38 is way more than Edelbrock suggests. As for the springs, we didn't mix them, we just tried each color as a pair.

 

David.... David... David.......


A 302 with an RV cam wouldn't do much better. You'll have to trust the truck guys on this.... the little wheesor and heavy vehicles are a poor combination. On top of that, Edelbrock should be slapped up side the head for advertising the 302 Performer RPM package as 1500-6500rpm power.. that just defies physics. With a 290 duration cam you can forget about anything below 3000rpm.. there's no power down there worth talking about.. unless you're putting this motor in a golf cart!

 

Conanski-

I understand what you're saying about weight. I doubt I have to tell you this, but the '85 Continental was built on the fox platform and isn't all that big of a car (sure as hell no Town Car). I just don't understand how you can take a car from 140hp to an advertised 350+ and not see any substantial performance gains. That, to me, defies physics. I admittedly don't know much building car engines (I'm a motorcycle guy), which is why I went with Edelbrock's complete setup. I thought it was more of a plug and play than this. Boy, was I wrong.

Anyway, what cam would you suggest I put in this thing that would work well with what I already have? There's no turning back at this point, so I'd like to make this car run as well as it possibly can. If I could go back and do it all over, I probably would have thrown a very lightly modded SBC/T-350 in there and been done with it a year ago. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

Well, that RPM cam is 224/234 @.05 lift. The Comp 292h cam in my Mustang is 242/242. So the RPM cam isn't subtle but it's not all that radical.

With 3:73 gears and a 2800 stall it ought to push a Lincoln along okay. Where's Hemieater been lately? He had a pretty bumpy cammed 302 in his truck and it was a hoss...

Any good shops with a chassis dyno around you? Nothing helps answer questions like good data.

 

Baron-

The best domestic performance shop in Tampa (who assembled the top end) only has an engine dyno. I have really wanted to get this thing on a chassis dyno but it seems like all of the shops with them in town are import specialists. I'd like to have someone there who knows what they're doing so we can make adjustments on the spot. I'll make some phone calls next time I get down there and try to get the car on a dyno. You are 100% correct about data, the numbers don't lie.

 

I know that car isn't the size of the old land barge continental, but a mustang convertable will push 3600lbs so this thing has to be up around 4000lbs, similar to what those mid 80's T-birds were.
The 302 with a stock 260 duration cam produces a pretty broad powerband and works OK in these cars, they didn't scare any vette owners though. That combo you got should produce good top end power, but if you want it to feel impressive I think you'll need a chunk more converter. A 351 with the same Edelbrock kit would be a lot more impressive.

 

I say it is a combo. That is to much cam and to low of a stall. I say keep the stall and change the cam for more bottom end.

 

It seems like there is a general consensus that I've got too much cam for the car. Here's a question that I mentioned in my original post:

If the machinist were to have retarded or advanced the cam timing (it's +/-4deg. adjustable if I remember correctly), what effect would this have on overall performance?

As for the converter, I told the transmission builder that I wanted a 3500 stall and he talked me out of it. I regret that decision. Even with my limited knowledge and experience, I think that either the converter or something else in the trans is holding this car back. I just don't understand how I can only run the car up to 1600-1800rpm on the brake when it's supposed to be a 2800 stall.

 

perhaps a 2800stall wasnt installed. I would take the car back to the tranny shop and have them double check everything including the TV cable adjustment. perhaps the throttle linkage is binding up some how not allowing the tranny to kick down properly??

 

Before I changed anything I'd get it on a dyno and see what it's doing. You might find out you're off 75-100hp because of the timing/fuel air ratio.

 

The AOD tranny is like the older trannys in that it has no control over the torque converter, and the TV cable has some effect on the shift points but that is still mainly governed by the valve body. If you are not getting 2800rpm stall standing on the gas and brake you don't have a 2800 stall converter, that's your big problem here I think. The graph for the Edelbrock package says it all, it doesn't even show anything below 2500rpm.. and the numbers are pretty low at the point and falling fast.




P.S. Changing the cam timing will alter the power produced.. but only very slightly, it won't produce the results that changing the cam would. I'll add that I don't think changing the cam is a good idea because that will just further mismatch the components and you'll get even less overall power. Stick with the engine combo you got and alter the drivetrain to take advantage of the 3000+rpm powerband.