Anyone used one of these? Up to 50% more MPG
#61
07-22-2008, 05:23 PM
Now, what the "solid fuel" that keeps getting recycled over and over - they don't seem to say... using the ol' "nothing is lost, nothing is gained, everything is transformed" law, i'd say that if you can invent something that can generate energy over and over, without ever running out or losing whatever property it uses to generate that energy (as this misterious solid fuel seems to be doing) then you've managed to break that law...
I don't think they are saying that. The solid fuel is regenerated thourgh use of energy from the system to make hydrogen from water. The by products, they claim, have unique properties and uses. What they don't say is what the catalyst is that reacts with hydrogen to produce heat. The rest is like you say a simple steam turbine and electrolysis of water.
"Energy can neither be created nor destroyed ,only altered in form"..(law of physics)....pretty much blows their theory out of the water....
Yes, they claim that the energy(heat) is coming from electrons of atomic hyrogen being reduced to a lower energy state by a catalyst.
Don't know if anything will come of it but I like to keep an open mind. As far as getting a 50% increase in mpg from any vehicle out there....right....I have a river for sale to go with that bridge....
I don't think they are saying that. The solid fuel is regenerated thourgh use of energy from the system to make hydrogen from water. The by products, they claim, have unique properties and uses. What they don't say is what the catalyst is that reacts with hydrogen to produce heat. The rest is like you say a simple steam turbine and electrolysis of water.
"Energy can neither be created nor destroyed ,only altered in form"..(law of physics)....pretty much blows their theory out of the water....
Yes, they claim that the energy(heat) is coming from electrons of atomic hyrogen being reduced to a lower energy state by a catalyst.
Don't know if anything will come of it but I like to keep an open mind. As far as getting a 50% increase in mpg from any vehicle out there....right....I have a river for sale to go with that bridge....
#62
07-22-2008, 05:40 PM
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#63
07-22-2008, 07:34 PM
#64
07-22-2008, 07:40 PM
#65
07-29-2008, 07:56 AM
Results
After reading this forum I felt compelled to test one out and put an end to my wishful thoughts of high gas milage out of a truck.
My machine is a 5.4 liter 4x2. I have a K/N intake (which didn't help milage or power, but made it sound sweet)
I put on Magna Flow SISO exhaust (again no gains in milage but made it sound nice)
I put on a edge chip (allows me to advance timing and burn premium fuel. on the highway I went from 17 to 19.5 MPG/added power and better shifts)
Now i tried an HHO kit from watertogas.com. I took a ton of verbal abuse from people when they found out what I did. When my package arrived at work I opened it, much to my dissapointment it looked like they went to walmart and assembled it. Its a kit where you "charge" the water in your house then put it in your truck. it draws no power from the battery, you simply hook it up to the intake manifold and it draws air in. With such a simple concept I was dreading my test. Not to mention the lashing and laughs people were having at my expense. anyways;
I topped off the tank and drove 40 miles to a wendy's turned around and came back. total trip milage was 85.9 miles. I filled my tank up to the point of overflowing. It took 2.8 gallons. That is a result of 30.7 MPGs. To be conservative I will say 28. I am not saying I am a believer yet, but close. maybe I had a tailwind going both ways. I am waiting to run my tank dry in the city but 35 gallons will take a few weeks. I will post those when I am done. If you want a second opinion I would be happy to show the set up to anybody in raleigh NC, then collect my 1000 dollar reward from tylus. (assuming the city driving yields good results)
My machine is a 5.4 liter 4x2. I have a K/N intake (which didn't help milage or power, but made it sound sweet)
I put on Magna Flow SISO exhaust (again no gains in milage but made it sound nice)
I put on a edge chip (allows me to advance timing and burn premium fuel. on the highway I went from 17 to 19.5 MPG/added power and better shifts)
Now i tried an HHO kit from watertogas.com. I took a ton of verbal abuse from people when they found out what I did. When my package arrived at work I opened it, much to my dissapointment it looked like they went to walmart and assembled it. Its a kit where you "charge" the water in your house then put it in your truck. it draws no power from the battery, you simply hook it up to the intake manifold and it draws air in. With such a simple concept I was dreading my test. Not to mention the lashing and laughs people were having at my expense. anyways;
I topped off the tank and drove 40 miles to a wendy's turned around and came back. total trip milage was 85.9 miles. I filled my tank up to the point of overflowing. It took 2.8 gallons. That is a result of 30.7 MPGs. To be conservative I will say 28. I am not saying I am a believer yet, but close. maybe I had a tailwind going both ways. I am waiting to run my tank dry in the city but 35 gallons will take a few weeks. I will post those when I am done. If you want a second opinion I would be happy to show the set up to anybody in raleigh NC, then collect my 1000 dollar reward from tylus. (assuming the city driving yields good results)
#66
07-29-2008, 09:13 AM
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After reading this forum I felt compelled to test one out and put an end to my wishful thoughts of high gas milage out of a truck.
My machine is a 5.4 liter 4x2. I have a K/N intake (which didn't help milage or power, but made it sound sweet)
I put on Magna Flow SISO exhaust (again no gains in milage but made it sound nice)
I put on a edge chip (allows me to advance timing and burn premium fuel. on the highway I went from 17 to 19.5 MPG/added power and better shifts)
Now i tried an HHO kit from watertogas.com. I took a ton of verbal abuse from people when they found out what I did. When my package arrived at work I opened it, much to my dissapointment it looked like they went to walmart and assembled it. Its a kit where you "charge" the water in your house then put it in your truck. it draws no power from the battery, you simply hook it up to the intake manifold and it draws air in. With such a simple concept I was dreading my test. Not to mention the lashing and laughs people were having at my expense. anyways;
I topped off the tank and drove 40 miles to a wendy's turned around and came back. total trip milage was 85.9 miles. I filled my tank up to the point of overflowing. It took 2.8 gallons. That is a result of 30.7 MPGs. To be conservative I will say 28. I am not saying I am a believer yet, but close. maybe I had a tailwind going both ways. I am waiting to run my tank dry in the city but 35 gallons will take a few weeks. I will post those when I am done. If you want a second opinion I would be happy to show the set up to anybody in raleigh NC, then collect my 1000 dollar reward from tylus. (assuming the city driving yields good results)
My machine is a 5.4 liter 4x2. I have a K/N intake (which didn't help milage or power, but made it sound sweet)
I put on Magna Flow SISO exhaust (again no gains in milage but made it sound nice)
I put on a edge chip (allows me to advance timing and burn premium fuel. on the highway I went from 17 to 19.5 MPG/added power and better shifts)
Now i tried an HHO kit from watertogas.com. I took a ton of verbal abuse from people when they found out what I did. When my package arrived at work I opened it, much to my dissapointment it looked like they went to walmart and assembled it. Its a kit where you "charge" the water in your house then put it in your truck. it draws no power from the battery, you simply hook it up to the intake manifold and it draws air in. With such a simple concept I was dreading my test. Not to mention the lashing and laughs people were having at my expense. anyways;
I topped off the tank and drove 40 miles to a wendy's turned around and came back. total trip milage was 85.9 miles. I filled my tank up to the point of overflowing. It took 2.8 gallons. That is a result of 30.7 MPGs. To be conservative I will say 28. I am not saying I am a believer yet, but close. maybe I had a tailwind going both ways. I am waiting to run my tank dry in the city but 35 gallons will take a few weeks. I will post those when I am done. If you want a second opinion I would be happy to show the set up to anybody in raleigh NC, then collect my 1000 dollar reward from tylus. (assuming the city driving yields good results)
If you're running your truck extremely lean, which it sounds like you are since, as you said, it simply draws in air, likely unmetered, then you could be on the verge of destroying your truck. I wouldn't go wide open throttle or pull anything heavy with it before doing that...
#67
07-29-2008, 09:39 AM
Thanks for the constructive feedback. I will be sure to take it off before towing my boat. I have no plans to hit the gas since I am going for maximum fuel milage. I will look into dyno results. That would give us the data needed to put an end to this debate. Better gas milage means nothing if we destroy the truck. I will get back to you.
#68
07-29-2008, 10:58 AM
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After reading this forum I felt compelled to test one out and put an end to my wishful thoughts of high gas milage out of a truck.
My machine is a 5.4 liter 4x2. I have a K/N intake (which didn't help milage or power, but made it sound sweet)
I put on Magna Flow SISO exhaust (again no gains in milage but made it sound nice)
I put on a edge chip (allows me to advance timing and burn premium fuel. on the highway I went from 17 to 19.5 MPG/added power and better shifts)
Now i tried an HHO kit from watertogas.com. I took a ton of verbal abuse from people when they found out what I did. When my package arrived at work I opened it, much to my dissapointment it looked like they went to walmart and assembled it. Its a kit where you "charge" the water in your house then put it in your truck. it draws no power from the battery, you simply hook it up to the intake manifold and it draws air in. With such a simple concept I was dreading my test. Not to mention the lashing and laughs people were having at my expense. anyways;
If you think you are getting
I topped off the tank and drove 40 miles to a wendy's turned around and came back. total trip milage was 85.9 miles. I filled my tank up to the point of overflowing. It took 2.8 gallons. That is a result of 30.7 MPGs. To be conservative I will say 28. I am not saying I am a believer yet, but close. maybe I had a tailwind going both ways. I am waiting to run my tank dry in the city but 35 gallons will take a few weeks. I will post those when I am done. If you want a second opinion I would be happy to show the set up to anybody in raleigh NC, then collect my 1000 dollar reward from tylus. (assuming the city driving yields good results)
My machine is a 5.4 liter 4x2. I have a K/N intake (which didn't help milage or power, but made it sound sweet)
I put on Magna Flow SISO exhaust (again no gains in milage but made it sound nice)
I put on a edge chip (allows me to advance timing and burn premium fuel. on the highway I went from 17 to 19.5 MPG/added power and better shifts)
Now i tried an HHO kit from watertogas.com. I took a ton of verbal abuse from people when they found out what I did. When my package arrived at work I opened it, much to my dissapointment it looked like they went to walmart and assembled it. Its a kit where you "charge" the water in your house then put it in your truck. it draws no power from the battery, you simply hook it up to the intake manifold and it draws air in. With such a simple concept I was dreading my test. Not to mention the lashing and laughs people were having at my expense. anyways;
If you think you are getting
I topped off the tank and drove 40 miles to a wendy's turned around and came back. total trip milage was 85.9 miles. I filled my tank up to the point of overflowing. It took 2.8 gallons. That is a result of 30.7 MPGs. To be conservative I will say 28. I am not saying I am a believer yet, but close. maybe I had a tailwind going both ways. I am waiting to run my tank dry in the city but 35 gallons will take a few weeks. I will post those when I am done. If you want a second opinion I would be happy to show the set up to anybody in raleigh NC, then collect my 1000 dollar reward from tylus. (assuming the city driving yields good results)
#69
07-29-2008, 12:06 PM
Everybody wanted somebody to test it...I sacked up quietly and did it, posted my results. To be honest I was hoping it didn't work so I could drop the subject all together and get my money back; now that it does work I need to do some more research into it. Perhaps somebody can get a hold of bobjunses or whatever his name is. He lives near me. I will test it a few more times and make sure it is not a fluke. Then I will show anybody in the area, as long as they pay for gas.
#70
07-29-2008, 09:00 PM
I'm guessing you bought this kit?
Water Gas Injector
and I also believe Fosters hit the nail on the head. The truck is leaning out due to air flow changes caused by your "system".
This system connects to the air inlet after the MAF sensor doesn't it?
FYI: injecting air bubbles into a tank of water WILL NOT PRODUCE a water vapor. You are simply aerating the water. Any drop in water level you see is due to evaporation.
Yes, you can burn water vapor in an engine. It also causes huge damage to a normal engine. Water when converted to steam is approx 1000x the space of 1 drop of water. Therefore, the combustion chamber would be subjected to huge pressures. It usually takes a engine block that is specially sleeved and re-enforced (aka Detroit Diesel) to take this abuse. Even then, these engines only last for several runs before self destructing
Water Gas Injector
and I also believe Fosters hit the nail on the head. The truck is leaning out due to air flow changes caused by your "system".
This system connects to the air inlet after the MAF sensor doesn't it?
FYI: injecting air bubbles into a tank of water WILL NOT PRODUCE a water vapor. You are simply aerating the water. Any drop in water level you see is due to evaporation.
Yes, you can burn water vapor in an engine. It also causes huge damage to a normal engine. Water when converted to steam is approx 1000x the space of 1 drop of water. Therefore, the combustion chamber would be subjected to huge pressures. It usually takes a engine block that is specially sleeved and re-enforced (aka Detroit Diesel) to take this abuse. Even then, these engines only last for several runs before self destructing
#71
07-29-2008, 09:16 PM
you have got to be kidding. I watched that little YouTube video they have at the bottom of the link I put up.
they really are seperating H and O from water...then they "pipe" these gasses to the other jar and "charge" the normal water with Browns gas to enrich it for when you drive
seriously...anybody else see any issues with this. I don't even have to get into the Chemistry aspect to debunk their crap.
1. pipe a gas into an open ended container and it somehow mixes the H and O gases into the water, but they don't recombine into water? And what is to prevent this Brown Gas from just simply exiting the jar?
2. "As soon as you hook a device like this to an automobile engine, it stops emitting harmful pollutants. It kills them, they are consumed in the combustion process" --- That is a 100% quote from the crackpots. Nice try from the super scientists, but not true. I also was having fun watching the 1 guy describe electrolysis without having any clue what he was talking about
to quote one of the "creators"...."Bang, it's gone in 60 seconds"...more likely the will close up the garage door and quit responding to e-mails/phone calls in 60 seconds. Only open every 3rd Tuesday on the 2nd leap year of the Century
at least your mason jars are good for some Iced Tea or Moonshine. I can't believe anybody would pay money for this system. They clearly show the system and conveniently list a parts list. Anybody with a little common sense can build 1 themselves without paying $100 to some moron geriatric looking to scam somebody.
they really are seperating H and O from water...then they "pipe" these gasses to the other jar and "charge" the normal water with Browns gas to enrich it for when you drive
seriously...anybody else see any issues with this. I don't even have to get into the Chemistry aspect to debunk their crap.
1. pipe a gas into an open ended container and it somehow mixes the H and O gases into the water, but they don't recombine into water? And what is to prevent this Brown Gas from just simply exiting the jar?
2. "As soon as you hook a device like this to an automobile engine, it stops emitting harmful pollutants. It kills them, they are consumed in the combustion process" --- That is a 100% quote from the crackpots. Nice try from the super scientists, but not true. I also was having fun watching the 1 guy describe electrolysis without having any clue what he was talking about
to quote one of the "creators"...."Bang, it's gone in 60 seconds"...more likely the will close up the garage door and quit responding to e-mails/phone calls in 60 seconds. Only open every 3rd Tuesday on the 2nd leap year of the Century
at least your mason jars are good for some Iced Tea or Moonshine. I can't believe anybody would pay money for this system. They clearly show the system and conveniently list a parts list. Anybody with a little common sense can build 1 themselves without paying $100 to some moron geriatric looking to scam somebody.
#72
07-29-2008, 09:30 PM
My machine is a 5.4 liter 4x2.
I put on a edge chip (allows me to advance timing and burn premium fuel. on the highway I went from 17 to 19.5 MPG/added power and better shifts)
about what I get with no tuner. 18-20 mpg highway only with 4x4 Screw
Now i tried an HHO kit from watertogas.com.
please see PT Barnum famous quote
I topped off the tank and drove 40 miles to a wendy's turned around and came back. total trip milage was 85.9 miles. I filled my tank up to the point of overflowing. It took 2.8 gallons.
no sure how familiar you are with Fords, but thought I should mention it. I have a 30 gallon tank. I can run till empty and the dash swears I'm about to run dry. Fill up tank and only put 25 gallons in. My other F-150's did similar things. the 90's ones had about 2-3 gallon reserve per tank. Ford usually has a 3-5 gallon reserve built in. It's hard to truly fill up a Ford.
I put on a edge chip (allows me to advance timing and burn premium fuel. on the highway I went from 17 to 19.5 MPG/added power and better shifts)
about what I get with no tuner. 18-20 mpg highway only with 4x4 Screw
Now i tried an HHO kit from watertogas.com.
please see PT Barnum famous quote
I topped off the tank and drove 40 miles to a wendy's turned around and came back. total trip milage was 85.9 miles. I filled my tank up to the point of overflowing. It took 2.8 gallons.
no sure how familiar you are with Fords, but thought I should mention it. I have a 30 gallon tank. I can run till empty and the dash swears I'm about to run dry. Fill up tank and only put 25 gallons in. My other F-150's did similar things. the 90's ones had about 2-3 gallon reserve per tank. Ford usually has a 3-5 gallon reserve built in. It's hard to truly fill up a Ford.
#73
07-29-2008, 09:35 PM
I suspect more people will tell me my math is wrong. I am fine with that. In fact I would be saying the same thing if I read something crazy like my earlier post.
Everybody wanted somebody to test it...I sacked up quietly and did it, posted my results. To be honest I was hoping it didn't work so I could drop the subject all together and get my money back; now that it does work I need to do some more research into it. Perhaps somebody can get a hold of bobjunses or whatever his name is. He lives near me. I will test it a few more times and make sure it is not a fluke. Then I will show anybody in the area, as long as they pay for gas.
Everybody wanted somebody to test it...I sacked up quietly and did it, posted my results. To be honest I was hoping it didn't work so I could drop the subject all together and get my money back; now that it does work I need to do some more research into it. Perhaps somebody can get a hold of bobjunses or whatever his name is. He lives near me. I will test it a few more times and make sure it is not a fluke. Then I will show anybody in the area, as long as they pay for gas.
#74
07-30-2008, 09:18 AM
#75
07-30-2008, 09:31 AM
The amount of hydrogen/oxygen produced in that video is laughable. These two guys when they explained how water is cracked were completely off kilter and did not explain the process correctly. A truck pulls in hundreds of CFM of air per minute. That device is likely to produce maybe a quarter to half CFM per minute.
Sounds like the primary function (actually, only real function) is water injection directly into the engine, not any real usuable amount of hydrogen. Now here's the interesting thing... water injection does work because it cools the intake charge significantly. They've been using this technique since WWII on fighter planes.
Here's the catch and its a big one: you're slowly destroying your engine by having a device like this run all the time. Do a search on piston wash and you'll find out what I mean. On the fighter planes it was used only in emergencies. On cars, generally performance cars with superchargers, proper systems cost hundreds of dollars and have controllers to kick in only at WOT and also add methanol to the intake stream to prevent the intake charge from being too lean.
Psuedo science always has a catch. I will say those to old fellas have the science of ripping people off perfected.
Sounds like the primary function (actually, only real function) is water injection directly into the engine, not any real usuable amount of hydrogen. Now here's the interesting thing... water injection does work because it cools the intake charge significantly. They've been using this technique since WWII on fighter planes.
Here's the catch and its a big one: you're slowly destroying your engine by having a device like this run all the time. Do a search on piston wash and you'll find out what I mean. On the fighter planes it was used only in emergencies. On cars, generally performance cars with superchargers, proper systems cost hundreds of dollars and have controllers to kick in only at WOT and also add methanol to the intake stream to prevent the intake charge from being too lean.
Psuedo science always has a catch. I will say those to old fellas have the science of ripping people off perfected.