I noticed that old Ghost Rider.. (Thats what my friends nick named my truck) was having some brake issues. The brake peddle was going down hill fast. All the way to the floor and it still wasnt wanting to stop. I went and bought new pads guessing that mine were worn out. I was correct by the way. Installed everything and I decided to go ahead and bleed it also. I got in after we were done and decided to do a test drive. At first the peddle was back to normal. Nice and firm. About 6 or so miles down the highway I hit them again to slow down and it was gone. I know you can adjust the rear brakes with a small tool or screw driver or something but i have not tried it yet. Not really wanting to mess with anything until I have a better idea of what im getting into. I had brake systems. I dont really like changing pads out either. Anyone have any idea to get them back to normal.

1997 F150 4x4 Lariat
Disc Front Brakes
Drum Rear..

 

If you are not losing fluid, I would suspect the master cylinder.

 

Park onto a clean concrete area and pump the brakes for a while... after you do it a few times look under the truck for any brake fluid puddles. If you dont see any leaks, i agree with Lx it would most likely be a bad master cylinder.

 

Yep I'd wonder about the master cylnder. Can you see fluid betwen the master cylnder and booster if you have power brakes?

 

didnt see any brake fluid.. but there starting to firm up a bit with driving.. maybe its just taking them a while to adjust? Hell if I know. I love Fords but they have a mind of there own..tempermental vehicles

 

The brake PEDAL going "All the way to the floor" is NOT the usual symptom of pads being worn out. Normally pads will wear right down to the steel backing, when they begin to make an alarming grinding sound. However the pedal normally remains high/hard & the vehicle still stops.

An exception to this is ignoring the telltale grinding noise & continuing to use the brakes hard, which causes excessive frictional heat to be transferred thru the pad & piston, causing brake fluid to boil.

What you describe sounds 1st & foremost like a hydraulic problem. On your '97 how often have you checked/changed the brake fluid & how many miles on original MC?

Disc brakes are self adjusting. While FORDs might be "tempermental" their brakes are made by other companys, like Wagner/Lockheed.

I'd be curious how you made room for the new pads. Did you press the pistons in, forcing the old fluid back into the reservoir from the caliper?

Changing brake pads is the perfect time to replace brake fluid. I always use a big syringe to pull all the old fluid out of the MC 1st & refill w/fresh. Then I open the bleeder so that the nasty old fluid is pushed out of the system when I retract the piston. This way new fluid enters the system & contaminants can not get pushed backwards into the MC.

If you "don't really like changing pads" you will positively hate changing MCs. If you want to "get them back to normal" let me suggest the "idea" of hiring a pro. You're subjecting yourself & innocent strangers to great danger by driving w/malfunctioning brakes that go "All the way to the floor and it still wasnt wanting to stop."

 

I never heard this "trick" before. Great idea.

 

Yes, this "trick" offers several advantages.

Without this "trick" a common mess results when the excess "nasty old fluid" pushed back into the MC, overflows, leaving a stink. It also eats away the paint wherever it dribbles, leading to a rusty firewall.

IMO its a miracle brake hydraulics are as reliable as they are considering so few people ever change brake fluid.

Another tip is that conventional brake fluid is hydroscopic & washes away fairly easily w/water.

 

Drum brakes are self-adjusting. Every time you back up they will try to adjust themselves. You have to adjust them out initially when you put the new shoes on, but they're designed to take care of themselves from there. Apparently, a lot of folks don't read their repair manuals or the installation instructions that come with their new shoes or they'd know not to push their old brake fluid back into the master cylinder.

 

F150 drum brakes rely on additional complex (some say troublesome & inadequate) brake adjustment mechanisms. F150 drum brakes are automatically adjusted, in steps, by such extra components. They are not truely "self-adjusting" in the same way as disc brakes, which require no additional parts or procedures & are infinitely "self-adjusting".

These FORD drum brakes DO NOT "self-adjust" exactly as you claim. Nothing happens to the automatic brake adjusters just b/c "you back up". In this design "they will try to adjust themselves" ONLY when you apply the brakes while backing up.

"Apparently, a lot of folks" DO "read their (Haynes) repair manuals" & often conclude its OK to force "nasty old fluid" "back into the reservoir".

To quote Haynes '97-'03:
"Remove about two-thirds of the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir and discard it; as the pistons are pushed in for clearance to allow pads to be removed, the fluid will be forced back into the reservoir.

As the piston is depressed to the bottom of the caliper bore, the fluid in the master cylinder will rise."

I've read similar instructions many times over the years.

 

There is 243,000 miles on the truck and the MC has not been replaced that I know of. When I bought the truck I got a nice little folder with all the service tickets and I never saw anything about it being replaced. Ill check into it. The last time the fluid was replaced I guess was when the CV axle got replaced. I went ahead and replaced the front pads while I was working on the front and they got bled out.

 

Yeah, I guess if you're one of those guys who routinely back up without using the brakes to stop when you're done your brakes never will adjust themselves. How's that working out for you?
Sorry about the contradiction with the Haynes manual....never owned one of them. Everything I've ever seen says to open the bleeder before you compress the piston to avoid forcing old, contaminated, deteriorated brake fluid back into the system.

 

The brake adjusters do not operate when "you back up" they operate when you apply the brake going backwards-even if you roll. If "you back up" all the way to China FORD drums will not adjust. You've got to take your foot off the gas moving backwards, put it on the brake, then go forward to complete the procedure.

To quote FORD:
"Rear drum brakes are adjusted automatically by alternately driving the vehicle forward and reverse, and sharply applying the brakes when driven in reverse."

"I guess if you're one of those guys who routinely" has difficulty making distinctions, the differences between "self-adjusting" brakes & brakes with automatic brake adjusters becomes meaningless. To quote FORD: "The front disc brake assembly is self-adjusting."

One respondant "never heard this "trick" before" & you claim "Everything I've ever seen says to open the bleeder". Thanks for covering a full range of possibilities. I'd add that many experienced readers have seen the instructions I quoted here & plenty learned a regressive way to do brakes.

I don't have Chilton on F150 here, but Chilton on '89-'96 Econoline reads:

"To avoid overflowing of the master cylinder when the caliper pistons are pressed into the caliper cylinder bores, siphon or dip some brake fluid out of the larger reservoir."

FORD's Service Manual for the prior F150 series states the same, virtually word for word. Its only difference being no reference to the "larger reservoir". There is no mention of opening the bleeder.

You may've never "owned" or "seen" Haynes or Chilton, however millions of FORD owners have read them. Add in all those misled by FORD's own publications & its pretty easy to see why many people end up forcing "nasty old fluid" back into the MC over the years. Consider yourself lucky to have learned the better way.

For the sake of accuracy let's look at: "the installation instructions that come with their new shoes or they'd know not to push their old brake fluid back into the master cylinder". Most people would say PADS not "shoes" here, since NON "self-adjusting" drum brakes do not require pistons be pushed back when "new shoes" are installed. You must manually turn back the adjusters.

"How's that working out for you?"

 

The self adjusting star contraption has been in use since about 1970, and they haven't made a reliable one yet. Tighten them up yourself:
Remove Drum, and you'll see the little shiny thing at the bottom, with what looks like a gear in the middle of it. turn that little gear (Normally with your hand) so that it pushes the shaft out, spreading the brake shoes. replace the drum and turn it. It wont turn far because of the studs, but it should have some tension in it.

Definately not a hard operation. This may help your problem (It helped mine) but it definately sounds like your MC could be a problem.

 

Lets try this...your drum brakes are designed to not need routine manual adjustment; due to their design they are automatically adjusted in the course of normal operation. Should manual adjustment become necessary, most manufacturers designed the brake backing plate with an access hole so you could adjust the brakes without removing the drums. They make a special tool to do the adjusting, but a flat screwdriver will do the trick. I don't know how the Haynes manual says to do it, but I always run the shoes out tight against the drum and then back them off until they don't drag any more. I ain't saying that's the right way to do it, but my vehicles always stop just fine. Sorry to get so far off track, bamafordguy, hows the truck stopping these days?