Someone brought up E85 in another thread on here, asking the person if they use it. What do you guys think of running E85 in one of our FFV fords? I know E85 burns faster than regular gas, but is it worth it for something that is about 50 cents cheaper a gallon than regular 87 octane? At least it's that in my area anyway. Are any of you guys using it, and if so, how is your truck running with it? Just curious.

 

If the vehicle is rated as a flex fuel then it's ok to use, otherwise don't.

Expect lower mpg, as E-85 isn't as energy dense as gasoline, so you'll have to do the calculations to see if the economy works out.

Be persnickety about where you buy it, as the high level of Ethanol in E-85 has an affinity for moisture, so it'll pick up condensation all along the way from the refinery, to your engine & that includes the pipeline, storage tanks & your gas tank.

So pick a brand thats careful about how it produces, ships, stores & dispenses E-85 & a well mintained clean station that pumps a lot of it, so it's fresh.

Only use the specified special fuel filter that designed for E-85 & change it at the specified time.

Also, if your not using Motorcraft crankcase lube, ask your oil manufacturer if their motor oil is formulated for use with E-85.

Some thoughts for pondering.

 

I think E-85 is a great idea, but it shouldn't be made from corn,as cord is used to feed people and animals. In Brazil then have been using E-85 since the 74 embargo made from sugar cane. It's not the only solution, but mixed with other alternitive energy sources it will help.

 

Its like $.80 cheaper here I'm going to start useing it I'll let you know how it goes!

 

Here in Sioux Falls SD it is running $1.00 less per gallon. I use it in my Ranger and can come out ok at that spread.

My Dad has a 2000 3.0V6 flexfuel in Minneapolis MN where the price is $.75 less he is also coming out ahead.

I made a simple sheet in Excel to calc. the breakeven point, all trucks are different. Just depends on the price spread and your MPG.

Example on my dads truck. he averages 19.5MPG on 87 gas.
250 miles driven. 12.82 gallons gas = $49.87 @ 3.89 gallon.

E85 he gets 16.9MPG
250 miles driven. 15.88 gallons E85 = $49.87 @$3.14 gallon

He can drop to 15.74MPG and still break even.

Summary he is saving money on E85.

 

You might want to re-cypher the E85 gallons used!!!!

250 miles & 16.9 mpg for E85 =14.79 gallons used & that = 14.79 X $3.14gal = $46.44, to drive 250 miles on E85, I believe.

So $49.87-46.44=$3.43 saved per 250 miles using E85 at $0.75 cents a gallon less.

 

you are right at the break even point he could use that much E85 and still break even.

The excel sheet is easy to make.I can post it if some one wants it and tell me how to attach it.

 

It's not so much the point if it's cheaper or not, it's that it's renewable and can be reproduced, at least 85% of it. That helps to strectch a barrel of oil. The more oil we can conserve it will help bring the price down, it still boils down to supply and demand.

 

Seems to me, the way to keep price spikes out of the commodities market & to Quickly bring crude oil prices back in line where they should naturally be on the spot market, (which is upside down right now) imo, is to limit the outright speculators, who are trading in "paper & video" barrels of crude!!!!

These are non industry "Big Money" 800 lb gorillas, that never intend to take delivery on a single barrel, they are just in the market to take control, make it's future prices "self fulfilling" & thus grab huge profits, at the countries expense!!!!!

These folks investment buying MUST be brought under better control overall, lest they just move on to another commodity, take over with their HUGE buying power & artificially control & drive it's price up, which will suck in other smaller money folks, dying to coattail on the big boys & quicky make that items price shoot artificially high, just as they have with crude oil.

This has happened in the past with things like Sugar, Silver, Coffee, some Paper Products, ect, ect.

More drilling, or pumping more crude, can't do much right now to Quickly affect the price of finished goods, like gas prices, as refining capacity is about maxed out, so right now thats the choke point & the industry couldn't process a huge bubble of crude if it wanted to, which it really doesn't want too, as it's making mucho dollars, doing nothing & riding the coattails of those 800 lb gorrila speculating investers, that have moved into the oil spot market & taken over!!!!

So strictly control, or regulate these non industry speculators out of the market by say, at some point requiring them to actually take delivery of that crude they just bid up & watch them bail out of the spot market & watch the price of crude slide back to the $50-$75 a barrel price, where it should naturally be & watch gas prices tumble back down to the $2 range, where they should be!!!!

Every body just take a deep breath & hang on for a year or so, until this backlash unravels itself!!!!!

We can't quickly grow our selves out of this problem either, look at what's happened to the price of corn, since we came by this energy inefficient, junk science, nutty idea, about using it to make fuel Ethanol & freeing ourselves from petro oil, which really isn't a good idea to suddenly do right now & isn't a good overall idea either way.

Too many folks on both sides, trying to flex their political mussels right now in this election year & we all are gonna pay a big price for it, while it all shakes out!!!!

In the meantime, it seems like in round numbers, you would need about a $0.75 cent, or more, lower price on E-85, to begin to sgnificantly save any money by using it.

Even then I wonder what it's doing to the innards of our engines over time, remember there just ain't no free lunch & the folks making & pedaling this idea, just want to see how deep they can get their hand into our money pocket & how much they can take out!!!!! lol

Pawpaws gas rant for the day!!!!

 

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY


OPEC sells oil for $136.00 a barrel.
OPEC nations buy U.S. grain at $7.00 a bushel.
Solution: Sell grain for $136.00 a bushel.
Can't buy it? Tough! Eat your oil!
Ought to go well with a nice thick grilled filet of camel ***!!!

 

Pawpaw, don't worry about your engines inards on E85. It stays much cleaner than on gas.

Bump your compression and watch your power and MPG go up.

 

Thats only part of the story, E-85 has lots of thirsty Ethanol, which as I've said has an affinity for moisture, so if it isn't transported, stored & dispensed properly, so that it's alcohol proof remains high/dry, it'll have plenty of moisture absorbed in it & it'll make plenty of acid byproducts during it's combustion.

So the engines lube had better have a mighty strong Base Number to begin with, just to deal with that & the remainder of it's recipe had better be adjusted to be compatible with Ethanol & all it's byproducts !!!!!

The additives in some lubes don't like Ethanol.

The fuel system parts & seals need to be compatable with Ethanol too & with a lower unit volume power density, we'll have a significant driving range reduction.

Because of the lower mpg we'll get, our driving range will be less per tank, so we'll have to burn more E-85 to go the same distance!!!!

Production of Ethanol via corn, really doesn't make sense, except to the folks growing it, as it takes way more energy to produce it, than it yields!!!!

Growing that corn, takes productive land & other needed crops out of the loop, along with the fertilizer, water, fuel to cultivate the land, grow the corn, harvest it & transport that corn to be processed, then lots of electicity to produce the Ethanol, ect, ect, so we have to rob Peter to pay Paul, there just ain't no free lunch!!!!!

How many corn crops a year can you grow & how about the weather, is it gonna cooperate all year long, year after year & whats done with the corn waste & how much additional energy is required to deal with it?????

But all those thoughts aside, it seems if we have a flex fuel vehicle, run the right crankcase lube in it & can buy good quality E-85 at a cost dfferential of $0.75 cents or greater per gallon, than straight 87 octane, then you may begin to save a Little on your fuel bill, but it seems E-85 isn't going to be the cost panacea everyone thought it might be.

I don't have anything against alcohol as a fuel, just with the junk science being put forth to convince folks it's a zero balance fuel & not telling folks that they'll have to burn a good deal more of it, to go the same distance & that using corn as a base to make Ethanol is the most efficient way to do it, it just isn't so, the rest of the story hasn't been told.

 

excellent point......

 

Even though Ethanol is hydrophilic, byproducts int eh oil is not a major concern. Acids tend to form in combustion only if either sulphur or nitrogen levels are relatively high. Also acids are only really acids when mixed with either water or oil. If the engine was properly broken in, the blowby should be ignorable. However, I do agree on having a good oil just in case. If ethanol can save you money, I am all for it. For me, ethanol cost more than gas because it has to be trucked in. I also do not have a flex fuel vehicle.

 

My truck isn't set up for E85. Not a FFV. But I should still be able to run E10. Yeah right.

The couple times I did run E10, 89 octane, it ran like crap and got worse mileage. So I'll stick with the Chevron 87 octane.