390 no start
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,430
Likes: 2
From: NH
390 no start
Yep another no start thread.
I did a quick search but nothing seemed to fit.
Bought truck (68 w/360) and ran perfectly fine. Put it up for the winter.
It started fine after winter so I could move the truck around the yard.
Pulled motor and put it into another truck (72 w/390).
got it all wired up and everything. Tried to start and motor turns over but no start. Getting gas to carb and it also gets spark. If I put gas in the carb it still won't start but back-fires. The more gas in the carb the better the back-fire.
I triple checked the firing order and that is all good.
Someone said the timing might be 180degrees out but I never pulled the distributor. In fact I didn't pull anytihng from the motor. Just unpluged everything and pulled motor and tranny as one. Spun motor around swapped trannies on it and than reinserted into the other truck.
It was put aside for the winter and it's now June and I need to get it running.
I did a quick search but nothing seemed to fit.
Bought truck (68 w/360) and ran perfectly fine. Put it up for the winter.
It started fine after winter so I could move the truck around the yard.
Pulled motor and put it into another truck (72 w/390).
got it all wired up and everything. Tried to start and motor turns over but no start. Getting gas to carb and it also gets spark. If I put gas in the carb it still won't start but back-fires. The more gas in the carb the better the back-fire.
I triple checked the firing order and that is all good.
Someone said the timing might be 180degrees out but I never pulled the distributor. In fact I didn't pull anytihng from the motor. Just unpluged everything and pulled motor and tranny as one. Spun motor around swapped trannies on it and than reinserted into the other truck.
It was put aside for the winter and it's now June and I need to get it running.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,785
Likes: 4
From: Mddl A MexCans
did you get the vac line put back on at the rear of the carb (the big one) ? Got a timing light ? put it on it and see what it says while cranking just for reference. That would confirm or rule 180º out I'd think.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
Don't assume #1 cylinder is where it's supposed to be on the cap.
Crank motor over till it's at TDC on the compression stroke (remove #1 plug and crank until you feel pressure at the plug hole, and then turn until the timing mark is at 0).
Check where the rotor points.
Don't assume the damper is right either, make sure the piston is at the top when the damper is at 0 degrees
Crank motor over till it's at TDC on the compression stroke (remove #1 plug and crank until you feel pressure at the plug hole, and then turn until the timing mark is at 0).
Check where the rotor points.
Don't assume the damper is right either, make sure the piston is at the top when the damper is at 0 degrees
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
Don't assume #1 cylinder is where it's supposed to be on the cap.
Crank motor over till it's at TDC on the compression stroke (remove #1 plug and crank until you feel pressure at the plug hole, and then turn until the timing mark is at 0).
Check where the rotor points.
Don't assume the damper is right either, make sure the piston is at the top when the damper is at 0 degrees
Crank motor over till it's at TDC on the compression stroke (remove #1 plug and crank until you feel pressure at the plug hole, and then turn until the timing mark is at 0).
Check where the rotor points.
Don't assume the damper is right either, make sure the piston is at the top when the damper is at 0 degrees
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Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,430
Likes: 2
From: NH
Well...
Gas has been in tank a long time. A few years. So long that when I went to drain it nothing came out. After I cranked the motor over a bit I rechecked and old gas started coming out. I than unhooked the fuel line to the carb and pumped out some more gas. Gas in there now is probably a year old. Think octain booster will help or am I draining another 5 gallons out?
I rebuilt the carb the summer before I did the swap and it it ran maybe a total of 2 hours sense the rebuild.
I was careful not to hit anything with the chain when lifting the motor out but I could have done something to the cap. I made sure not to touch any of the timing stuff because I really didn't want to deal with it because it was running good before I pulled it.
I have to check the vac line on the back of the carb.
Was gone all last weekend and its raining out now. I'm not THAT motivated
Thanks for all the input guys.
Gas has been in tank a long time. A few years. So long that when I went to drain it nothing came out. After I cranked the motor over a bit I rechecked and old gas started coming out. I than unhooked the fuel line to the carb and pumped out some more gas. Gas in there now is probably a year old. Think octain booster will help or am I draining another 5 gallons out?
I rebuilt the carb the summer before I did the swap and it it ran maybe a total of 2 hours sense the rebuild.
I was careful not to hit anything with the chain when lifting the motor out but I could have done something to the cap. I made sure not to touch any of the timing stuff because I really didn't want to deal with it because it was running good before I pulled it.
I have to check the vac line on the back of the carb.
Was gone all last weekend and its raining out now. I'm not THAT motivated
Thanks for all the input guys.
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Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,430
Likes: 2
From: NH
Finaly got a chance to get to it today and here is what I have now.
Put a used good cap and rotor on it.
Put Better plug wires on it.
Cranks over real slow with a known good 900CCA battery.
The terminals start to smoke after holding the key on for about 10 seconds.
I believe the fuel pump is clogged or not working as when I went to a gas can no gas came out of the line when taken off of the fuel pump.
There was a squeak sound while the motor was cranking over. (dry bearings??)
My main worry is how slow the motor turns over. It turns over like the battery is dying but the battery is fine and the motor keeps turning.
I'm going to get it up near the garage if not in the garage change the oil, change the fuel pump check TDC and see where I get.
Also forgot to mention last time I tried to turn the motor over by hand I could not do it. I was just torquing the crank bolt more so I stopped before snaping the bolt.
Put a used good cap and rotor on it.
Put Better plug wires on it.
Cranks over real slow with a known good 900CCA battery.
The terminals start to smoke after holding the key on for about 10 seconds.
I believe the fuel pump is clogged or not working as when I went to a gas can no gas came out of the line when taken off of the fuel pump.
There was a squeak sound while the motor was cranking over. (dry bearings??)
My main worry is how slow the motor turns over. It turns over like the battery is dying but the battery is fine and the motor keeps turning.
I'm going to get it up near the garage if not in the garage change the oil, change the fuel pump check TDC and see where I get.
Also forgot to mention last time I tried to turn the motor over by hand I could not do it. I was just torquing the crank bolt more so I stopped before snaping the bolt.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 4
From: Golden, CO
This sounds bad! The wires are smoking because of the current being pulled by the starter. Why the current drain still needs to be determined.
Check you oil for anti-freeze. Pull all the plugs and see if it is still difficult to turn by hand. Keep the plugs out, put a few squirts of oil in each hole and let it seep down for at least a few hoursbefore trying to turn it over.
I typically use a 50/50 mix of ATF and 30wt in the plug holes, let it set overnight.
Look for water/rust when you pull the plugs.
Check you oil for anti-freeze. Pull all the plugs and see if it is still difficult to turn by hand. Keep the plugs out, put a few squirts of oil in each hole and let it seep down for at least a few hoursbefore trying to turn it over.
I typically use a 50/50 mix of ATF and 30wt in the plug holes, let it set overnight.
Look for water/rust when you pull the plugs.
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,430
Likes: 2
From: NH
Well I ohmed out the coil wire from the firewall to the coil and it bad. Broken somewhere in the 3 way connector. I am now trying to hunt down those factory push on connectors for the diol, temp sensor and oil sensor. I have a lead on a new 3 way connector, not factory but should work.
Hopefully after rebuilding that wire pack things should improve.
Hopefully after rebuilding that wire pack things should improve.
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,430
Likes: 2
From: NH
Haven't been able to find the post end slip on connectors for the coil, water temp and oil pressure.
any ideas? One parts store could get a GM style that would work but I would have to buy a box of 50 or so.
I was also doing some reading and read that there are about 3 different types of coils regarding voltage. I have the 68 coil with the 72 wiring. Would this be a problem? Could I put the 72 coil on it or have I already messed up the entire electrical system?
any ideas? One parts store could get a GM style that would work but I would have to buy a box of 50 or so.
I was also doing some reading and read that there are about 3 different types of coils regarding voltage. I have the 68 coil with the 72 wiring. Would this be a problem? Could I put the 72 coil on it or have I already messed up the entire electrical system?
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,056
Likes: 8
From: Union, Washington
Haven't been able to find the post end slip on connectors for the coil, water temp and oil pressure.
any ideas? One parts store could get a GM style that would work but I would have to buy a box of 50 or so.
I was also doing some reading and read that there are about 3 different types of coils regarding voltage. I have the 68 coil with the 72 wiring. Would this be a problem? Could I put the 72 coil on it or have I already messed up the entire electrical system?
any ideas? One parts store could get a GM style that would work but I would have to buy a box of 50 or so.
I was also doing some reading and read that there are about 3 different types of coils regarding voltage. I have the 68 coil with the 72 wiring. Would this be a problem? Could I put the 72 coil on it or have I already messed up the entire electrical system?
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,430
Likes: 2
From: NH
Ok, It seems like i get to work on this thing once a month and get nothing accomplished.
I found the coil wire harness I needed at mustangs unlimited.
I ohmed out the coil(s) I have and the original one showes no resistance from the + to the - side and no resistance from the + to the center post. I beleve this one is bad.
The other coil I have (original for the '72 390) has 12V prionted on the case of the coil and there is no resistance from the + to the - wire and 9.06ohms from the + to the center post. Is this bad?
also the coil + wire have 12v going through it with the key in the acc position. The temp sensor wires on the same harness show about 9v on and off pulsing. Is any of this correct for '72 wiring?
I checked TDC and it is correct with the placement of the rotor.
The terminal that is smoking is the - battery terminal. And it's when holdign the key for more than the 10 seconds I mentioned earlier.
I am beginning to think I have an electrical problem somewhere.
With the '72 (12v) coil I was able to get the motor to back fire on what seems to be 4 cylinders i na row and not just one like I have been getting. And I bypassed the gas tank and am going straight from a gas can to the fuel pump.
Right now I have the 50/50 oil atf sitting in the cylinders.
I found the coil wire harness I needed at mustangs unlimited.
I ohmed out the coil(s) I have and the original one showes no resistance from the + to the - side and no resistance from the + to the center post. I beleve this one is bad.
The other coil I have (original for the '72 390) has 12V prionted on the case of the coil and there is no resistance from the + to the - wire and 9.06ohms from the + to the center post. Is this bad?
also the coil + wire have 12v going through it with the key in the acc position. The temp sensor wires on the same harness show about 9v on and off pulsing. Is any of this correct for '72 wiring?
I checked TDC and it is correct with the placement of the rotor.
The terminal that is smoking is the - battery terminal. And it's when holdign the key for more than the 10 seconds I mentioned earlier.
I am beginning to think I have an electrical problem somewhere.
With the '72 (12v) coil I was able to get the motor to back fire on what seems to be 4 cylinders i na row and not just one like I have been getting. And I bypassed the gas tank and am going straight from a gas can to the fuel pump.
Right now I have the 50/50 oil atf sitting in the cylinders.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,056
Likes: 8
From: Union, Washington
Ok, It seems like i get to work on this thing once a month and get nothing accomplished.
I found the coil wire harness I needed at mustangs unlimited.
I ohmed out the coil(s) I have and the original one showes no resistance from the + to the - side and no resistance from the + to the center post. I beleve this one is bad.
Yes bad.
The other coil I have (original for the '72 390) has 12V prionted on the case of the coil and there is no resistance from the + to the - wire and 9.06ohms from the + to the center post. Is this bad?
No, the primary coil has next to nothing for resistance.
also the coil + wire have 12v going through it with the key in the acc position. The temp sensor wires on the same harness show about 9v on and off pulsing. Is any of this correct for '72 wiring?
Should be no volt to coil in Acc, position. The pulsing is normal for gauges anymore.
I checked TDC and it is correct with the placement of the rotor.
The terminal that is smoking is the - battery terminal. And it's when holding the key for more than the 10 seconds I mentioned earlier.
Smoking means the connection is loose or dirty or both. If the wire is smoking where it goes into the terminal, replace it.
I am beginning to think I have an electrical problem somewhere.
With the '72 (12v) coil I was able to get the motor to back fire on what seems to be 4 cylinders i na row and not just one like I have been getting. And I bypassed the gas tank and am going straight from a gas can to the fuel pump.
Right now I have the 50/50 oil atf sitting in the cylinders.
I found the coil wire harness I needed at mustangs unlimited.
I ohmed out the coil(s) I have and the original one showes no resistance from the + to the - side and no resistance from the + to the center post. I beleve this one is bad.
Yes bad.
The other coil I have (original for the '72 390) has 12V prionted on the case of the coil and there is no resistance from the + to the - wire and 9.06ohms from the + to the center post. Is this bad?
No, the primary coil has next to nothing for resistance.
also the coil + wire have 12v going through it with the key in the acc position. The temp sensor wires on the same harness show about 9v on and off pulsing. Is any of this correct for '72 wiring?
Should be no volt to coil in Acc, position. The pulsing is normal for gauges anymore.
I checked TDC and it is correct with the placement of the rotor.
The terminal that is smoking is the - battery terminal. And it's when holding the key for more than the 10 seconds I mentioned earlier.
Smoking means the connection is loose or dirty or both. If the wire is smoking where it goes into the terminal, replace it.
I am beginning to think I have an electrical problem somewhere.
With the '72 (12v) coil I was able to get the motor to back fire on what seems to be 4 cylinders i na row and not just one like I have been getting. And I bypassed the gas tank and am going straight from a gas can to the fuel pump.
Right now I have the 50/50 oil atf sitting in the cylinders.
Check that the plug wire firing order is correct.
Make sure the plugs are good. Easier to just replace them.