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2nd law of thermodynamics states that in a closed system enthalpy always decreases and entropy always increases. Simply put; unusable energy (entropy) always increases, useable energy (enthalpy) always decreases.<o></o>
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In the case of an HHO generator...making H2 and O2 from H2O. While this can easily be done it is not efficient because of the second law of thermodynamics. Simply put; H2O is a product of an exothermic reaction. A fuel (hydrocarbon or just H2) is reacted with an oxidizer (O2, air or other chemical oxidizer). This reaction gives off energy (heat) and the byproduct (ash) is water. Think of it this way, hydrocarbons, LPG, H2 or whatever are not by definition an energy source but rather an energy carrying medium.<o></o>
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How does HHO differ from other gases like propane? Well propane already carries the energy. This energy was stored in the form of propane deep inside the earth under heat and pressure. The HHO generator would be the same as taking CO2 (or other source of carbon) and H2O and converting them into propane. It takes more energy to do this than is released in an exothermic reaction back to CO2 and H2O.....2nd law of thermodynamics.<o></o>
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The only conceivable improvement in efficiency using the HHO generator is that it is not producing any significant amount of H2 and O2 but rather because it gets sucked into the engine through a vacuum the water is really boiling and water vapor is what is actually going into the engine. Water injection USED to be used in gas turbine engines (my area of expertise) to increase horsepower and efficiency...but it was quickly learned that it was not cost effective due to the cost of the system and the degradation of engine parts. Also this increase in horsepower and efficiency could be measured in a turbine engine producing 30,000 to 100,000 base hp and consuming many thousand of dollars of fuel per day....in you 350hp engine doubtful any meaningful measurement could be made.
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Another name for these HHO generator salesman is Liar, cheater, thief, take your pick.<o></o>
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horstman1970 is totaly correct .I am not as knowledgable in that area but I do deal with chemicaly induced exothermic and indothermic reactions and the laws of physics.

 

The idea of the HHO kit is to use a little bit of electricity that is made by the engine (by the alternator) and create HHO gas which more than makes up for that electricity you used. Why bother putting this in a car.... just hook it up to itself. It should be able to make free energy essentially. Use a little bit of electricity to make the HHO gas and then run an engine that makes lots of extra power.

"Free energy" has been proved impossible over the last 200 years and you can only find people with no science background selling them. They never work in any lab test. The inventor never powers his house off it, or hooks it up to the grid to produce power and make money. Sure sounds great, but if this was true, there would be free energy, and making your car more efficient would be the least amazing thing HHO offers.

Scientists can't even confirm HHO gas exists! I mean come on, they invent new elements in the lab, you would think the least they could do is find HHO gas that a layman can make with a kit for a couple hundred bucks. So obviously it's just making H2 and O2, wow century old technology.

Now a good idea is to hook up a normal electrolysis gadget and make some pure Oxygen and pump that into the engine. Now you can pump in more fuel and get more power. It's like a nitrous boost. That sure won't help your gas mileage tho.

 

Hey,

Fairly new to post but have been researching this HHO stuff. Granted, I understand the zero energy argument, but we aren't burning pure HH0 (also known as Hydroxy, and H2 02 gasses). This product that you make on demand is basically a fuel additive, that helps burn more completely the given carbon based fuel of choice, gasoline, deisel, etc. No different than any of the commercially available fuel additives that supossedly increase mileage.

Drive a little slower, don't stomp on the go juice at lights and you should get better mileage..I did just that and have a slight mileage increase between fill ups. You can build basic systems for under 100 dollars, most of us throw that much away with **** poor driving habits.

Once upon a time the world was believed to be flat, yet Columbus didn't let the nay sayers sway him from trying. If it doesn't work, no harm done, but at least you tryied to squeeze some extra mileage out and that can't be a bad thing...Peace

 

Perhaps you meant Oxyhydrogen, but that is a mix of O2 and H2. Again, there is no such thing as HHO. Santilli proposed magnecules to exist, HHO being one of them, but no one has ever seen an HHO molecule, and Santilli is regarded as a proponent of false theories. Let's call it Hydrogen and Oxygen, so at least we are in the realm of reality.

Here is a link to proper scientific studies of adding Hydrogen to different engines. Granted, in Diesel engines it does help completely burn the mixture, but as stated in the article, it is highly unlikely that it is possible to increase fuel efficiency if you are generating the hydrogen from water. It has never been demonstrated in a lab. I am sure that the folks at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory had much more money and expertise and did not even bother trying this for obvious reasons, it won't work.


Adding hydrogen is very effective in reducing emissions and is the most useful application for this technology. There is a government evaluation program for any product that can aid fuel economy for cars or trucks that will give you millions of dollars if you can prove it works, however there is no product using "HHO" gas that has even applied for this. Why would they turn down money, unless it's a scam.

Wow, driving slower gives you better mpg?!?! Who would have thought.

All the major car companies invest billions of dollars into improving fuel efficiency, which helps them sell their cars over their competitors. Don't you think they would add cheap products like these if they worked.

 

Dougphysics,

You're getting to hung up on the common vernacular for the H2 O2 gas that is being produced. Bottom line, whatever you prefer to call it, the "HHO" does work for most people as a means to improve their mileage. Does everyone report gains...no. Will it clean your exhaust...yes.

Something to do to get you out of a "Honey-Do-List".... Priceless

 

Better to put your money in the tank. All these devises are snake oil. You can try to warn people but stupid is as stupid does.

 

Please show one credible study proving they work.... you can't because one doesn't exist.

 

I love it when people say drive slower and don't stomp on the gas and you'll get more mpg with the HHO kit. Wow, who would have thought..... it must be the HHO doing the job there and not your careful driving.


By the way I completely agree that this is valuable in cleaning your exhaust.... that's why the truckers want it in N.J. , so they don't get fines for dirty exhaust.

And if there was a study done proving it works you can send it to the EPA which would then implement it in all vehicles thereby making you rich and helping soceity. But considering no company that sells these "HHO" products has sent a device to the EPA to test.......

 

pay no attention to this person this is working not on my truck (as yet) but it is working. that is why i am here, to find out how it will work on my truck. i have seen a friends truck with one on it, but it was an 80s model gas burnerand he says its good right now for @ 10 extra mpg!!!

naysayers go away and let the dreamers dream for without the dreamer we all would still be hunting on foot with a wooden spear!!

 

I want whatever your buddies smoking. Ask any chemist at your local college. You won't find any one that agrees with this. I asked my proffesor, and he called it BS. Its like trying to build a perpetual motion machine. Even in a perfect system, you couldn't make more energy, just keep the cureent amount. IE the amount of extra electricity needed to run this would be made up for by more efficient burning of fuel.

 

This aint snake OIL. Snake oil might work this IS NOT going to work.
Think about it. This simple little divice Ford could put on your truck and increse your fuel milage 30, 50%. Ford would love to increse your milage 10% but it is not on your truck, wonder why, bet I know.

 

Oh boy where to start, it takes a large amount of energy to crack a water molecule into H2 & O2. This process, even if it is 100% efficient, is equal to the energy gained when they are recombined. This initial energy added must be supplied by the alternator, which is FAR from being 100% efficient. To make a significant amount of H2 and O2 would require a large amount of power and this comes from the engine that runs at best 40% heat efficiency. So for just a simple thought experiment, we use 10 hp to drive the "bricks" and get back 4 hp at the crankshaft . . . SNAKE OIL!

 

If it takes way more energy to make it then it creates then wouldn't everyone be reporting a lose in fuel millage rather then it staid the same or increased?

IMO If they are reporting an increase or are staying the same then they just might be increasing the air quality around them!

I don't know about the snake oil thing but I think that (sugar pill) would be better. If it works for them then so be it! How many times and ways did the old man try to make a light bulb? Thank God he didn't give up!!

 

I have seen this running in a few vehicles, the tests concluded. It works.

The cost difference: gas + money vs electricity + water = MONEY

the ultimate goal is to save money, and it does, MPG fluctuates based on the vehicle efficiency of using gas with air. IE gas guzzlers that aren't very efficient will see the most savings.

A similar setup is your stereo system in your car. You go and buy 2 subs and amp and a few higher powered tweeters, you upgrade your battery to allow for a higher load and next thing you know you're bumpn some mad tunes in your car.

Back to hho, since we dont need a stereo system and we need hydrogen, we use a little device that uses electrolysis, we slap the device to the battery it creates a bit of HHO, attach a hose from the HHO device to your air intake, and next thing you know you are saving some cashola thanks to the combustable mixture. There is a tax on your battery, and your alternator but it is very similar to a good amp and some subs.

The only non believers are the ones that have not tried it, or seen an application running. Remember its not free energy, its called converting the energy into something that is less expensive, and that is our main goal. SAVING CASH!

I will be putting one of these on my f250 6.0 diesel. I believe there should be a 15-40% increase in savings of fuel. My rsx type-s however from what i've seen might only get up to a 10% increase as it already operates pretty efficiently.

If anyone has some #'s regarding the savings for a 6.0 diesel please let me know, and the application that was used.