Just picked up a 1970 F350 with dealer installed PTO driven dump bed. It runs and drives great, 4 speed on the floor, I think it has a 390 in it. The tires hold air but are dry rotted, I am looking to get rid of the old split rims for the standard hubs where can I look for these?

This is one nice old truck, body is in great shape has all original paperwork and truck is totally stock.

Please help

 

i know the rims are are the same for the f350 up to 96. be sure you get 16's & not 16.5's 16 are a whole lot easier to find tires for and cheaper.

 

That is too easy, so up 96 F350 rim will fit, I'll check out a junk yard tomorrow.

 

Well went to a junk yard and picked up six rims with good to fair tires on them for $ 350.00.
Thanks for the help.

 

Walt, Let me post a quick caution: The bolt patterns are the same, but you need to learn that there are two mounting systems -- I cannot tell you the change-over year from memory. Your early F-350 (like my 1968) has a "lug-centric" mounting system and, if you look at your wheel centers, you will note that the holes have conical seats for the lug nuts. Additionally (unlike automobile wheels) every other hole is dished in or out, so some attention must be paid when mounting the wheels.

Because careless "tire monkeys" would mount the wheels improperly causing wheel damage and worse, Ford went to a "hub-centric" system that has no conical seats and uses lug nuts with a flat washer built into the nut. The wheels are located by the bore of the wheel fitting the hub snugly and are "clocked" by a pin which goes through a hole in the wheel center. In all cases the actual load and torque is carried by having the eight lug nuts properly torqued.

I helped a friend search junk yards for the parts and wheels to convert a 1973 F-350 from lug-centric split rims to hub-centric drop-center, one-piece rim for tubeless tires. It was a lot of trouble and required swapping out all four hubs & brake drums & brake backing plates, including making spacers for the backing plates -- my pay for helping was the almost new drop-center lug-centric wheels he had recently purchased new. There is nothing wrong with the lug-centric system so long as the mechanic has knowledge of what is going on.

I found a major light truck wheel internet source that offered both early and late wheels in non-split rim style. Five years ago they were around $75 per new wheel, which is not a bad price. Used wheels (late style) were around $40 in CA junkyards at that time. If you hit the junkyard, remember that the wheels on an E-350 dual-wheel van are the same as on the F-350 trucks. Learn about the differences between early & late mounting before you buy anything. (I realize you have already gotten past this point . . .)

I may be able to look at my old bookmarks and find the internet wheel supplier if you are interested, but I do not have that information on my current computer. I am also willing to discuss more details on options and details if you are interested.

 

Well I've picked up the rims off of a 1994 F350. It did have the lugs with the washers on them. And I did pick them all up, so do I need to use the new lugs with these rims or do I have to change out the brake drums etc?

Thank you for the heads up on this thing, I have not done anything yet but spray everything with liquid wrench. I would love to send you a picture but I don't know how???

 

Walt, There may be a variety of opinions on what is best to do, but I will give you my perspective.

First, lets divide the wheel-mounting into three separate functions:

1) How do you get the wheels mounted to run true (concentricity)?

2) How do you get the wheels "clocked", which means that the dual hand-holes are set up to make the valve stems convenient to reach?

3) How do you get the wheels to stay in that position when under load, running down the road?

Function number one and two are both done by the coined wheel centers and the cone shape of the lug nuts in the early (lug-centric) system. Function number one is done by the hub and function number two is done by the pin on the late (hub-centric) system. Function number three is always done by the clamping force of the eight properly torqued lugs which create enough friction to keep everything in position -- this is especially important with the late system as it is obvious that a single pin could not possibly carry the torque involved.

The problem is that your hubs are mounted to your brake drums (or discs if you have front disc brakes) in a different manner that the later hubs are mounted. This means that there are a lot of things to replace. It may be possible to use your late wheels and flat-washer lug nuts on your early hubs. It is most critical that the wheels run true and this means that your late wheels must have a bore that matches your early hubs. The early hubs were not machined to provide this locating surface. Your late wheels probably have a bore that is too large, but at least they are machined true. (First job for you is to measure the bores and see if they will even fit over the rough diameter of the hub. I do not remember this detail, so please check it out.)

The most direct solution is to machine the hub outside diameter just enough to provide a true surface. It would be best to standardize on the same diameter for all four hubs. Then all you need is some spacer rings to allow you to mount your wheels true without any special effort. Occasionally manufacturers have made an error on what the ordered wheels and ended up with a warehouse of wheels with too large a hole, forcing them to deliver vehicles that had such a spacer ring from the factory. My point is that this is not an unrealistic solution. These rings will probably stay in place better if they are an interference (tight). Make them a few thousandths of an inch smaller inside diameter than the hubs' outer diameter.

(I realize this involves machining on your hubs, which means removal from the truck. The spacers would also have to be machined. This might end up costing more than changing over the whole thing if you can get the rest of the parts cheap. My friend did have to machine spacers for the brake backing plates, so there is machining no matter what you do. If you have someone to help with the machining, it is pretty simple lathe work -- once the hubs are off all they need is some minor turning of the outside diameter (OD) , although it would be a little tricky to do this with the studs in place. Ideally I would recommend truing the hub OD, pressing on the spacer ring, and then turning it to the size of the hole in the wheel centers (minus a thousandth or two for easy assembly). This should all be done with the hubs mounted running true to the bearing bores. Also do put anti-seize on the wheel bores so that they will not be corroded onto the hub spacers.

The issue of clocking is the remaining problem. By simple observation it is easy to rotate the two dual wheels so that their two valve stems are 180 degrees apart. When assembled this way on a locating hub (with spacer ring), there is a bit of rotational play because the holes are bigger than the studs. I would recommend moving them into the center of their movement so that the studs are centered in the holes. At that point you need to install the lug nuts (with anti-seize) and torque them properly to the full recommended torque. I do not have the number off the "top of my head", but remember that there are several different numbers from different sources which have been mentioned in old threads on this forum.

It would be possible to add the clocking pin to each of your hubs but it would be a lot of trouble and should not be necessary as long as you always supervise the mounting of your wheels. Anyway, this should give you something to think about and I welcome other opinions.

P.S.: To vinlin95, I think your answer is correct for non-dual setups if they use all coined wheels. The 16.5 part is also good advice, although I am told that certain types of tires are more available for the 16.5 size. (I think these are big mud-bogger types.)

 

Ford used the coined dual rear wheels through the 1983 model year if I remember right. 1984 began the hub-centric non-coined wheels.

 

the rims I got are from a 1988 F350 they look like they will bolt right on but I have not tried it yet.

I do have the ability to pick up more parts from this 1988 if they will swap out anything on my 70 model?

I just posted some pictures up of the 1970 F350, I sure like this truck

 

Walt, If you look (pull one lug nut off) at your wheel centers on your truck, you should find that the lug nut has a tapered seating surface that matches the wheel center's conical seating surface. The only way it would not be as stated would be if it was upgraded and then it would probably not have split rims. If your newer wheels have a large enough diameter center hole to clear your hubs, it will be physically possible to install the wheels, but there will be no system aligning the wheels centered on the hubs and you will not have a smooth ride. If you drive very far, you risk shaking your lug nuts loose and destroying at least one of your new wheels. This is not a good idea! (Do not use tapered lug nuts on your late wheels!)

It looks to me like you will have to decide on whether it is worth the trouble to do the machining I mentioned in post # 7 of this thread. The other alternative IF your split rim locking rings are not badly rusted or damaged is to find a shop that will mount new tires on these rims. If you are buying new tires from them, you should be able to find a shop that will do it if you look around. You will probably need to buy new tubes and this is some serious $$$ all by itself. There is nothing wrong with split rims or the early lug-centric mounting system so long as an experienced person does the mounting. Once you have a full set of new tires mounted, you will not have to deal with it for a long time. I did the work myself mounting all six split rims on my truck. Shortly after that I acquired a whole set of drop-center, tubeless tire type rims with early centers, but I still have not swapped them in because the wheels I have work fine. Next time I mount new tires, I will be changing over to the non-split rims.

You could take the option that my friend followed and buy the hubs, brake drums/discs, brake backing plates, and other parts from the same truck you got the wheels from, but it is NOT a bolt-on installation. I know my friend had to make spacers for the rear brake backing plates. His F-350 is a 1973 and already had disc brakes. What your 1970 has in front will also factor into how easy a change-over will be. The donor you are using is much later that the donor my friend used, so there may be additional problems, so proceed cautiously. Unless you really like this idea, I think it is the most work, and probably the most $$$ as well. I recommend you see if you can find a major shop that can deal with split rims -- you only need one shop and you only need to go to them once if they are not local. Please remember that these trucks can do serious work and getting new tires on the can be a serious investment. Once you have good, high quality tires, you will get a lot of mileage out of them.

P.S.: There are at least two ways split rims can be rendered unsafe to re-mount wheels on. One is major corrosion that ruins the locking surfaces of the wheel and ring. Another is that a careless amateur can twist the mounting rings when removing them. (Don't ask me how I know, but I had two sets of wheels to learn my lessons on, so by the time I weeded out the twisted rings and those that were rusted, I came out with the one set I needed. You may need to come up with a few more wheels if a few of yours are worse that the rest..)

 

Yes the original lugs are tapered to fit the split rims. The new lugs have a washer built on to them. I have not had the time to take the wheels off as yet, and the donor truck is a 1988 F350 not a 94 as I first posted.

 

Walt, The 1988 donor vehicle is similar to the one my friend used to do a total conversion of his 1973 F-350 to hub-centric mounting, but he had his own machine shop to support making modifications and spacers. I would still lean toward getting a refund on the 1988 wheels and finding a tire dealer that would support your split rims. If you are going to get enough use out of the truck (& plan on keeping it for a long time), then I would recommend buying six new wheels, but this will be around $100 per wheel. You will still need to also buy tires, but they can be tubeless which will save you $$$ by avoiding the need for tubes.

More information about lug-centric mounting for DRW: The reason that DRW vehicles have more complexity in the mounting system is that they have the additional problem of mounting two rear wheels. In the hub-centric mounting of late Ford DRW F-350's the bore of the wheel centers are used to align the wheels concentrically and a pin does the "clocking". This is the more fool-proof system, but it does have the occasional problem of corrosion freezing the wheels on the hub. (I once watched a "technician" in a truck tire shop use a huge mallet to beat on the wheels of a DRW truck that suffered from this problem. The obvious preventative measure is to use anti-seize liberally on the wheel bores when mounting hub-centric wheels.)

On lug-centric mounted DRW's the positions of front and outer rear wheels are controlled by the matching taper of the lug nuts and the wheel centers. The inside rear wheels are controlled by being coined so that they seat in matching coining in the outer wheels. This coining system should be well-understood by anyone who mounts these wheels and this was the main reason they were abandoned by Ford. Every other hole is coined in & out, so that with eight holes, there are four matching positions and four non-matching. (It is normal to mount DRW wheels so that the hand-holes for access to the valve stems are 180 degrees opposite, so actually there is only one correct position.) This is all not very difficult once one is aware of the details.

 

Walt, take acheda's advice and get yourself some late 70's early 80's coined 16" wheels. The washers on your 88's lug nuts do not center the wheel nor do they take the place of the "coins" on the other wheels. Junkyards should be full of the 80-83 F350's (don't forget to check the E350 motorhomes) with 16" wheels that are coined. Just make sure you don't get 16.5" wheels as tires are just about obsolete for those too.

 

I got 6 coined wheels with tires off an '80 F350 last year for my '70 F350. The truck was on the way to the scrapper and I only paid $50 plus a set of 16.5" wheels that I had. Unfortunately, 3 tires are radial and 3 are bias ply. I haven't mounted them yet. I'm still running the splits and bias ply that came with the truck. They have tons of tread left and ride pretty good once they warm up and get round again. I have seen 3 67-72 F350s with 16.5 coined one piece wheels. Make SURE you get 16 and not 16.5. The 16" coined wheels seem to be pretty rare.

 

ALL

So I'm the proud "new owner" of a 1972 F350, DRW, AT, AC, cut away Beaver C class RV with 80k documented miles. Other than replacing the orange carpet, and a leaky exhaust manifold, the tires are the next project. Fronts are split, but the rears are not. All tires are dead and dry 7.50 16 tubes. If the rears are not split, did someone convert them and do you think I need to worry about checking the items you all mentioned or could they have come from the factory that way? If they are correct, can I put radials on them? Do I have to be as careful with the steer wheels?

This thing is sweet, I'm having a ball with it. Finally, my first dually!!!!